Oct 15 2008
What is educational about this?
A first grade class took a school-sponsored trip to a gay wedding last week, drawing heavy criticism from pro-family conservatives.According to reports, 18 first graders, ages five and six, traveled to San Francisco City Hall Friday for the wedding of their teacher and her lesbian partner, demonstrating what some see as a real consequence of the California Supreme Court’s decision to legal same- sex “marriage.”
“Taking children out of school for a same-sex wedding is not customary education. This is promoting same- sex marriage and indoctrinating young kids,” said Yes on 8 and ProtectMarriage.com Campaign Co-Manager Frank Schubert in a released statement.
“I doubt the school has ever taken kids on a field trip to a traditional wedding,” Schubert added.
Liz Jaroslow, the school’s interim director, told The San Francisco Chronicle that the field trip was “a teachable moment,” and said she believes the field trip was justified academically.
“I think I’m well within the parameters,” she said.
Officials in other school districts, however, disagree.
Santa Ana Unified School District board member Rosemarie “Rosie” Avila told ProtectMarriage.com that teaching kids whether gay “marriage” is okay or not should not be up to public schools but “is an issue for parents to discuss with their children according to their own values and beliefs.”
“It shouldn’t be forced on us against our will,” Avila added.
The wedding on Friday was officiated by San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, a “friend of a friend,” who is featured in a recently released Yes on 8 television ad. In the ad, Newsom declares that the door to same-sex “marriage” is “wide open now” and that “[i]t’s gonna happen, whether you like it or not.”
Read more here.
[From me]
What people do in the privacy of their own homes is between them and God. But I can’t for the life of me understand how a field trip during school to any wedding is educational? Do you really think that a school is going to allow students to leave for a heterosexual wedding? There is an agenda here. Adults can make these kind of choices, but children are impressionable.
We have a friend who is in a Charter school here in NC whose teacher told the class a few weeks ago that he was a homosexual. Why? What the teacher does on his own time in his own home is no one’s business. Tolerance needs to go both ways.
What do you think?
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23 responses so far
This is so disturbing. It is exactly what many of us have identified already and predicted would spread further wherever oxymoronic “same sex marriage” is made legal. First graders are being fed the lie that this behavior is somehow normal and positive. Why do they have to be exposed to things like this at such a young age?
Some people try to deny the slippery slope argument, which is sometimes, but not always, a logical fallacy. But things like this are exactly what one should expect when a few rogue judges override the will of the people and invent civil rights for sexual preferences.
Once this is legal then the state becomes an enemy of the church, because the church “discriminates.” The state must give equal, or at least proportional time and space to these relationships in classes and textbooks. Sadly, this whole process is aided and abetted by many fake and/or serioiusly confused Christians.
Not surprisingly, you also get public nudity, sex and indescribable perversions out in the streets in San Francisco - Nancy Pelosi’s district, no less - and nothing is done by the police! Will this be the next field trip for the 1st graders?
Or will the next field trip be to a Creationist Museum? Probably so, if that is what the parents agree to, right? Not likely.
If you are in California, please vote “yes” on proposition 8!
The good news buried in this atrocity is that it will show people what they will have - and more! - if proposition 8 fails. Hopefully it will increase voter turnout.
Neil’s last blog post..More on Hell
Saw this on Fox News two nights ago. Disgusted then. Disgusted now. I hate double standards. But maybe it will be a wake up call.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..Calling All Men!
Where were the PARENTS in all of this?
Didn’t they have to sign a release form for their children to go on a field trip?
Phil Hoover’s last blog post..Is God on America’s Side
I remember us having to watch Princess Di’s wedding in elementary school, and then we talked about it. Perhaps weddings can be stretched to be educational. I think the teacher was taking advantage of an opportunity. How normal is it for a Mayor to do a City Hall wedding during the middle of the week? Why wouldn’t this teacher just take a day off work? Phil, I thought the same thing. We have to sign forms for EVERY field trip. Now, I know some parents don’t read the forms, but that can’t be true for all of them. Thos children should get to go to a heterosexual ceremony as well now…if we are being educational.
Now the teacher in NC telling his class that he is homosexual doesn’t offend me greatly. Of course we don’t have all the data. There are preteens who are so conflicted about their sexuality that perhaps having a teacher open for conversation will help keep some students alive. Teachers often relate to their students by sharing some of their personal life. If we don’t want the homosexual teacher mentioning his private life, then the coach with the wife and two kids needs to keep that private as well.
Janna,
I didn’t talk about my family when I taught HS and coached football. If people asked I would talk about it but school is for academics not social agendas.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
Kevin, that isn’t true though for so many teachers/coaches. Most of my favorite teachers were ones who shared their personal lives some as well. I actually think that knowing my teachers as real people helped my social, mental, and spiritual development. Achieving the balance to allow some sharing may be difficult if we have to fear children hearing something we disagree with.
Some of my high school teachers even had pictures of their families displayed.
I remember it was exciting when my 5th grade teacher was engaged. She married during the summertime. I don’t think it was a social agenda, but it certainly took away from class time. I did many of my creative writing assignments about her wedding plans.
Janna,
I don’t want to sound like I didn’t talk about my wife. But the students would ask me. Plus, many knew about my faith because I was involved with FCA and went to Young Life with them.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
There is nothing confused about a Christian who recognizes how the Bible has been perverted by bigoted homophobes into justifying their own discrimination against gay people.
I would recommend reading material from http://www.soulforce.org , specifically http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible written by Reverend Mel White.
Furthermore, I would argue that a homosexual wedding is MORE educational than a heterosexual wedding, due to the fact that gay marriages currently are so attacked by the closed-minded and hateful majority who are “disgusted” by events such as this. The fact that gay marriage is legal in California has tremendous ramifications on very educational topics, such as the Constitution of the United States of America, which apparently the people who post on this website should consider perusing for their own information.
Jesus said that we should respect civil government. Perhaps it’s about time we should apply that respect and adopt a rational interpretation of what is meant by equal protection under the laws. History nor God will not forgive you for your support of such a patently discriminatory and unjust pattern of atrocities committed against the gay community, even if there is a mob of uninformed “Christians” who are currently backing you up, just like they back up the discriminatory treatment of blacks and women throughout the history of the United States.
Ben,
Have you read what the Bible has to say about Homosexuality? Don’t try to lump the skin color of people and the the gender with homosexuals. Homosexuals chose their lifestyle. People don’t chose their skin color or gender.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
WHERE WERE THE PARENTS of these school children?
Phil Hoover’s last blog post..Pastor Mark Arnold’s “encounter with God”
Kevin, I have prayerfully and carefully studied ALL of the passages used by some Christians in their attempts to justify their efforts to attack the rights of gay people and to morally condemn acting in accordance with their sexual identities.
Have you already read Reverend Mel White’s research on what the Bible says about homosexuality? Or was your mind made up before considering my point of view?
No,
I’ve read what the Bible says.
Romans 1: 26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
Well, in addition to the fact that the idea that homosexuality might be an innate sexual characteristic (as evidenced by examples of homosexual behavior in nature, independent of cultural factors), Reverend Mel White had this to say about Romans 1:26-27 (by the way, I find it interesting that you seemingly have the arrogance to not consider Mel White’s take on this passage, as if YOUR interpretation or your pastor’s is so pure and Godly and perfect as to not warrant any scrutiny at all, even when used to justify prejudice). Hope you don’t mind the quotation–if you mind, in the future I could summarize.
What does Romans 1:26-27 say about God?
For our discussion, this is the most controversial biblical passage of them all. In Romans 1:26-27 the apostle Paul describes non-Jewish women who exchange “natural use for unnatural” and non-Jewish men who “leave the natural use of women, working shame with each other.”
This verse appears to be clear: Paul sees women having sex with women and men having sex with men, and he condemns that practice. But let’s go back 2,000 years and try to understand why.
Paul is writing this letter to Rome after his missionary tour of the Mediterranean. On his journey Paul had seen great temples built to honor Aphrodite, Diana, and other fertility gods and goddesses of sex and passion instead of the one true God the apostle honors. Apparently, these priests and priestesses engaged in some odd sexual behaviors — including castrating themselves, carrying on drunken sexual orgies, and even having sex with young temple prostitutes (male and female) — all to honor the gods of sex and pleasure.
The Bible is clear that sexuality is a gift from God. Our Creator celebrates our passion. But the Bible is also clear that when passion gets control of our lives, we’re in deep trouble.
When we live for pleasure, when we forget that we are God’s children and that God has great dreams for our lives, we may end up serving the false gods of sex and passion, just as they did in Paul’s time. In our obsession with pleasure, we may even walk away from the God who created us — and in the process we may cause God to abandon all the great dreams God has for our lives.
Did these priests and priestesses get into these behaviors because they were lesbian or gay? I don’t think so. Did God abandon them because they were practicing homosexuals? No. Read the text again.
In our Soulforce video, There’s a Wideness in God’s Mercy, the Rev. Dr. Louis B. Smedes, a distinguished Christian author and ethicist, describes exactly how the Bible says these promiscuous priests and priestesses got into this mess. Once again it has nothing to do with homosexuality:
SMEDES: “The people Paul had in mind refused to acknowledge and worship God, and for this reason were abandoned by God. And being abandoned by God, they sank into sexual depravity.”
SMEDES: “The homosexuals I know have not rejected God at all; they love God and they thank God for his grace and his gifts. How, then, could they have been abandoned to homosexuality as a punishment for refusing to acknowledge God?”
SMEDES: “Nor have the homosexuals that I know given up heterosexual passions for homosexual lusts. They have been homosexual from the moment of their earliest sexual stirrings. They did not change from one orientation to another; they just discovered that they were homosexual. It would be unnatural for most homosexuals to have heterosexual sex.”
SMEDES: “And the homosexual people I know do not lust after each other any more than heterosexual people do… their love for one another is likely to be just as spiritual and personal as any heterosexual love can be.”
Thank you, Dr. Smedes. (To get a copy of the video featuring Dr. Smedes, There’s a Wideness in God’s Mercy, visit http://www.soulforce.org.)
Getting to know a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender person of faith will help you realize that it is unreasonable (and unjust) to compare our love for each other to the rituals of the priests and priestesses who pranced around the statues of Aphrodite and Diana. Once again, I feel certain this passage says a lot about God, but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it.
You’ll also note that Romans 2 begins with “Therefore, [referring to Romans 1], you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself…” Even after he describes the disturbing practices he has seen, Paul warns us that judging others is God’s business, not ours.
sorry about the two-part post, I made a typo in my first sentence.
I meant to paraphrase Mel White’ point that the idea that sexual identity might be an innate characteristic was not even discovered until the 1900s, further supporting the view that the Biblical authors had no opinion on it.
Why am I arrogant because I have a belief that the Bible is correct? What interpretation is there? In the OT God destroyed an entire city because of homosexuality. Why do you resort to name calling? I haven’t called you any names.
I’m not homophobic. I have no problem if someone wants to live how they want. Just don’t rub my face in it. Let children be children and if they chose that lifestyle when they get older than that is their choice. But the Homosexual agenda is to indoctrinate children and actually recruit them.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
Maintaining your willful ignorance of scripture while you sit idly by and support a movement to use the laws of the United States unconstitutionally, like weapons to further a misguided agenda of conformity and hate is wrong. It is un-American and it is definitely not Christian. Whether you act from a motivation of homophobia or a misguided notion of what YOUR rights are is unimportant. People on your own list has used the word “disgust” to describe children attending a wedding!
You were not brought on this field trip. No one is rubbing your nose in anything. And the children have a right to go on educational field trips without the meddling of Christians who maintain this willful ignorance. The children are learning about the laws of this country, and in San Francisco, gay marriage is legal–that fact should not be kept hidden from children no matter whether you are acting from homophobia or merely “don’t rub my nose in it” — whatever you would like to self-label that attitude.
Ben,
I haven’t called you “ignorant” like you have called me. I haven’t called you any names yet you are blasting my views. I don’t control what other people say. I don’t censor. I haven’t censored you.
How do you drag me into weapons? How have I been unChristian? I didn’t say I don’t love the teacher. I just think it is wrong to do what she did. Just like any other sin by anyone including me.
You need to check your angry spirit.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..What is educational about this?
I am actually having a very good day, very little negative energy over here, I have friends who share your view, so no worries about my angry spirit. I am not taking out a bad day on you or anything. Although I admit I have strong feelings about human rights.
The fact that without reading Reverend Mel White’s interpretation of the passage from Romans on which you rely is the only reason I used the word arrogant–you are so sure your interpretation of Romans is correct and infallible, you do not bother to test that against a new point of view–are you afraid your conviction is not strong enough to withstand new information?
The fact that as of now you still have not shown evidence you read his point of view is all I meant by “maintaining willful ignorance.” Not ignorant in a derogatory, general sense, merely ignorant insofar as you have shown no evidence that you have made an effort to understand my point of view before contradicting it.
And homophobia, by definition, is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. You have displayed 2 of 3, by claiming there is a homosexual conspiracy to recruit new members, you have demonstrated irrational fear. By tacitly supporting using the laws of this country to deny homosexuals their Constitutional rights, you are supporting discrimination. If the shoe fits…
I merely use labels to speed up my communication of ideas, if you prefer, I could type out exactly what I mean when I call you ignorant, homophobic, and arrogant. It will take longer, but at least it would show clearly I have not sunken to the level of angry name-calling.
Ben,
I’ve read Soulfource’s stuff and in my opinion it is bad exegesis. You are free to believe as you want. I won’t make fun of your opinion I just believe you are wrong. I think labels are lazy and I believe you have sunken to name calling.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Catholic Church orders woman to stop spreading messages she says come from the Virgin Mary
Kevin,
I am sorry about the labels. In the future, I will be much more hesitant to stray from talking about the points you are making toward labeling the underlying attitude/position.
I really do appreciate that you read the bad exegesis!
My uncle read the soulforce stuff too and as far as I know, he too is unconvinced. I think the most dangerous thing is when Christians aren’t willing to even CONSIDER other points of view, but I have lots of respect for peeps who give new points of view a fair shake and then stick to their guns afterward.
Although I think my labels were restrained compared to truly angry name calling (because i honestly wasn’t angry), I concede they were unnecessary to make my points, so I apologize again.
It’s an interesting story… I never went on any field trips like that as a kid.
[...] HT: Kevin Bussey [...]
Slight update:
This is sort of a double-post, because I just posted about “packing up,” but I thought it was interesting that Kevin told me to check my angry spirit. Because I have been having some soul-searching lately, and what I learned is that it is not enough to have good points, you also need to make those points in a godly way, otherwise even if you are making the right points, the devil can still win if you make them in an arrogant way.
I have lately discovered that I am/was cursed with a sort of arrogance (the optimistic view is that I am no longer so afflicted, since I have labeled, repented, and asked God to deliver me from said curse). On the one hand, I now feel that no matter how right we may feel, it does not justify giving our points in an unrestrained way, but on the other hand, the small shred of good that underlay my arrogance was that it is good to have a good opinion of your own intelligence, so long as you don’t get carried away. It would be bad to go so overboard with humility that you lost all confidence in your ability to keep up in a discussion.
Anyways, I just wanted to update that I did do some soul-searching as of late and if I had a do-over, I think I could have handled the whole above list with a lot more restraint and possibly even more persuasiveness, if I did not make enemies by, as Kevin stated, not watching “my angry spirit.”
Ben,
Thanks for your response. I’ve had people on this blog point out to me when I was wrong and THEY WERE RIGHT. We all see things in different ways and that is how I learn from others. Thanks for taking time to express your views. I do respect them.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..God absent from debates