Oct 04 2008
Abortion?
I’m really struggling with trying to understand how people who say they are followers of Jesus Christ can justify being for abortion. Can someone show me from the Bible how you arrived at that decision? I don’t want to hear it is complex or I’m personally against it but who am I to tell a woman about her body. What about the unborn baby’s choice? I want to know how a follower of Jesus Christ can justify taking an innocent life? I’m not talking about those outside the faith, I’m talking about those who claim Jesus as the leader of their life. From the Bible, how do you justify abortion?
I’m not trying to pick a fight. I just don’t get it. I don’t see how killing a life honors God. I can’t grasp how many believers think it is no big deal. Please help me understand your thinking. I won’t bash your view, I just want to try to get it.
What do you think?
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20 responses so far
Well, for the life of me I don’t get it either, so I’m very interested in the responses you might get.
Personally, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for a guy running for city dog-catcher (much less President of the United States) if he thought it was okay to kill unborn babies.
Barry Wallace’s last blog post..The Offensive, Attractive Cross
Don’t see many responses yet…I’ll be interested to check back throughout the day to see what people say…
I’m with you!
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..Clothes with that Sandwich?
I’ll check back, too, but one thing for sure is that all the people who agree that abortion is OK, have already been born. My usual question in those cases is whether it would have been OK with them, for THEIR mother to have had an abortion.
Bob Cleveland’s last blog post..NEWS FLASH! We Didn’t Write The Bible….
I think that essentially no one (even among non-Christians) is “for abortion” in the way that you’re framing it…in the sense that they think it is a good and desirable thing, or even is neutral, or “honors God”. I think most all of us Christians agree that it is something that grieves us.
If you’re really interested in sparking a discussion and understanding the perspectives of people who think differently then you, then you probably shouldn’t start by dismissing out of hand and bashing views right before you say you won’t. I think it is complex in part because of the real issue of a woman’s control of her body, because (in contrast to the way you’ve framed this question) pro-choice is not the same as pro-abortion, because there are differing philosophies about the most effective ways to reduce abortions, etc.
If what you’re really asking is how could a Christian vote for a pro-choice candidate, then here are some links that should help understand. If you take the time to read some of these you should be able to understand that perspective even if you aren’t persuaded of its validity:
http://www.prolifeproobama.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/frank-as-a-former-pro-lif_b_119435.html
http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2008/10/kmiec-responds-to-criticism-on.html
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/10/another_antiabo.html
http://donmilleris.com/2008/10/03/on-the-campaign-trail-in-mi-in-nc-va-and-oh-this-week/
http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/08/can-social-spending-reduce-abo.html
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/07/prolife-democrats-call-for-an.html
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=45
http://jonmower.com/obama-and-abortion
Jonathan’s last blog post..Shellac in Pontiac
Jonathan,
I will look @ them when I can get to a computer (hard to read on a Treo).
How have I bashed anyone here? I just stated my belief that taking a life is wrong. I want to know from Scripture how someone can justify it-that is all.
Thanks for your perspective.
I had a business associate who thought that a person isn’t alive until they breathe according to the Bible.
As I read it, I don’t see where the Bible ever says where life starts. I’ve got to go to science to attempt to answer that. The funny things is more than half the people I go to church with hate science, but they are more than happy to talk science if they think it helps them bash abortion.
On the political front, the republicans run on anti-abortion every two years and then never do anything about it. Reagan, Bush, and Bush all proved they didn’t give a rip about stopping abortion. McCain isn’t any different. I figure we ought to pick some other issue to vote for.
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Abortion?
Thank you Jonathan for posting those links. Good interesting reading.
Kevin, I believe that many Bible-believing Christians who are going vote for Obama are not “for abortion,” as your first sentence says. I think that is what Jonathan is getting at. The way you are framing your question is the problem if your goal is seeking to understand.
My response probably doesn’t help you, but many of the links that Jonathan posted probably will help you if you are seeking to understand a pro-life yet voting for Obama position.
Jonathan,
I was able to get to the links you provided. Thank you. I’m not saying there aren’t some valid points.
Aside from Obama v. McCain (because I personally don’t care for either)–Where in the “BIBLE” does it say that Abortion is OK. Where does it say in the “BIBLE” that is OK to take a life. That is what I want to know.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Abortion?
Luke 1: 41-42
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Abortion?
1 Samuel 15.2-3
This what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
One Little Man , I mean Hugh,
What does that verse have to do with Abortion?
You asked where the Bible states its ok to kill.
Hugh,
So you would stand before God & say it is OK to abort a baby? Good thing Mary & Elizabeth didn’t make that choice.
Let’s see…if an abortion is performed, what do you have? A dead baby, right?
If a stillbirth takes place, what do you have? A dead baby.
Hugh, the Scripture you’ve quoted has nothing to do with abortion. Want to try again?
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..Clothes with that Sandwich?
Kevin,
I wasn’t saying you were bashing somebody, but that your statement “I won’t bash your view” seemed to be contradicted by “I don’t want to hear…” and the way you framed the question (implying that many Christians are “for abortion”).
As I mentioned before, I think most people agree that abortion is not “OK”, i.e. good or even neutral. I’m sure there are some situations where some Christians might consider an abortion to be the better of two bads, but you won’t hear that argument from me or most Christians. I’ll be surprised if you hear that argument from anyone on this blog (but, admittedly, I haven’t spent too much time in the comments here). To me, the more interesting question is that given the general consensus that we want to reduce the abortion rate, what’s the most effective way to accomplish that?
Hugh raised an example of God ordering the murdering of babies. Sure, it’s not directly relevant to this question, but I also must frankly say that there is some stuff in the OT (like Yahweh-sanctioned genocide) that I have a hard time reconciling with the wholly nonviolent example of Jesus. This leads some to question the veracity of those OT scriptures. I’m more like: “I don’t understand it, but that’s OK.” To be honest though, we have to admit that there are examples where many Christians think the taking of life is authorized by the Bible…like to punish criminals, or in self-defense, or in war. War is an example where we know that many innocent lives are even taken. It’s very disturbing to me that some Christians seem to be OK with preemptive war or even torture.
To be clear, I’m not trying to justify abortion. I don’t think it is OK, but I also don’t think the issue of taking of life and the Bible and how Christians (perhaps inconsistently) apply those principles is necessarily a simple question.
Personally, I don’t favor the taking of life of the unborn or the criminal or (except perhaps on the rarest of occasions) in war. It’s complicated by the difference between the choices of a Christian and those of the statement, but I think there are a variety of ways that we need to think hard about applying Biblical, Christ-like principles about “taking life.”
Since I’ve already established myself as the king of links, I’ll leave you with another one that I read recently that I thought was pretty interesting in grappling with some of these issues:
http://inhabitatiodei.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/moral-equivalence-war-and-abortion/
Jonathan’s last blog post..Shellac in Pontiac
I don’t understand how Christians believe in the “thou shalt not kill”, yet manage to support the illegal invasion of Iraq, which has seen thousands of deaths so far, with no end in sight.
God commanded abortion. He specifically told his chosen people to rip open pregnant women and tear out their foetuses. That indicates his wholehearted approval .
We had this discussion a few months ago in WBS. We talked about the whole issue including Christian responsiblity, but that isn’t what you are asking here.
If I person doesn’t believe life begins at conception, then there really isn’t an issue of killing for them. With the Jeremiah verse that is so often used, the concept of having an idea and getting rid of it is the argument. That verse gets used by some organizations to say that the use of birth control or condoms is wrong because that is stoping the life from being formed. Elizabeth was farther along in her pregnancy is the usual thing I here, so it would have been wrong for her to have an abortion.
Last Spring, I heard a woman say that she knew God did not want her to be pregnant because of how she got pregnant. She had a list of biblically sounding reasons - her family, her job she know God gave her, the plan for her life. Two days before her appointment for the abortion, she had a miscarriage. When I have talked to her since, she is more convinced that her decision to have the abortion was right. It is scary, for she truly believes God took away the questioning of the decision by making it for her. She is the only woman I know that has had a miscarriage and not gone into mourning
I am not pro-abortion. I would like to be pro-life, but I too don’t believe it really would matter for my voting. I don’t believe a politian is going to make laws more in favor of pro-life even with a new judge appointment.
Kevin,
This is a great question, and as I look at the responses, I find myself simultaneously agreeing, and diagreeing, with Jonathan.
On the one hand, I agree with him that just because someone is voting fo Obama does not make them “pro-abortion.” Though I personally could never cast a vote for someone who is”pro-choice,” I understand that others do not share that conviction of “single-issue voting.”
On the other hand, your question was not about Obama vs. McCain if I understand it. It was directed at professing Christians who are taking the position of “I’m not going to judge” on this issue.
I for one am very glad that Lincoln did not say “I’m personally opposed to slavery, but if one man wants to own another, who am I to judge?” He said it was wrong for the entire country, and subsequently went about changing the law to reflect that strong moral value. Where the taking of an unborn life is concerned, any position weaker than this one is simply not Christian.
I wonder how many of us would be willing to take one of these unwanted/aborted children into our home and love and care for them as our own. There are alot of homes and foster homes filled with children who were unwanted, abused, neglected, etc. and are only there because they put money in the pockets of their care-takers, in regards to foster homes,. I don’t agree with abortion either, but I don’t agree with the fact that we christians point the fingers at these often times troubled young woman, or barely adults who do this, rather than offering them an alternative, better than what children have right now. Personally I’d like it if the only peope who spoke against it, were those who have taken an unwanted child into their home and raised them or are raising them or have done so, without any financial help from the government. Or christians who have taken into their home a pregnant mother in need of financial, emotional, and physical support and guidance and carried that burden with her until she got on her feet or maybe for the rest of their lives providing them with a family and the support that a loving family should provide. I don’t see many people pointing the fingers or blaming or judging do this to be frank and I find it to be worse in the Christian community. What does that say about us?