Aug 05 2008
Even the Phelps don’t deserve this
Members of the Phelps family awoke to flames early Saturday. Topeka firefighters were dispatched to Westboro Baptist Church, 3701 S.W. 12th St., at 1:05 a.m. A fence and garage were engulfed in flames. Lucas Mark and his girlfriend, Monique Webster, were in the drive-through of McDonald’s at S.W. Huntoon and Gage when they noticed flames in the east. They drove toward the flames and ended up at the church.
“We called 911,” Webster said. “My boyfriend knocked on the door.”
Mark notified an occupant that their garage was on fire.
Topeka fire marshal Greg Bailey said Saturday afternoon the cause of the fire hadn’t been determined. Bailey said it didn’t appear that accelerants were used to ignite the fire, but that the blaze remained under investigation.
“We won’t rule anything out,” he said.
Fire investigators said the flames originated outside the detached garage, near two large trash can totes. The fire destroyed both cans and their contents as flames spread to the exterior of the garage and an adjacent privacy fence, Bailey said. Fire crews evacuated occupants at the home. Firefighters removed several of the Phelpses’ anti-homosexual picketing signs from the garage as family members and neighbors watched.
Shirley L. Phelps-Roper said she thought the fire was intentionally set.
“None of what they do is going to stop us from delivering our message,” Phelps-Roper said as she watched firefighters spray water on the garage.
Phelps-Roper said firefighters responded and “did what they were supposed to do.”
Read more here.
[From me]
As much as I hate their message, even the Phelps should not be harmed. Just because they are hateful people doesn’t mean they should be targeted. In fact, the way to get rid of their hate is to give them a dose of love.
What do you think?
11 responses so far
I agree K. Unfortunately, we live in a culture that breeds the idea of “you reap what you sow” in violence. The Phelps’ have fostered the idea of hate and bigotry and violence and will have to live with the possible consequences of that. I am not saying it is right (it isn’t) but enraged people are vengeful people. It would be interesting if they found it was set on purpose and did find out who did it what the Phelps family would do-respond in kind or respond in love.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..Unforgiveness
I agree with you Kevin. Wouldn’t it be great is the churches in the area would rally around and love on them for a while. Maybe some covered dish lunches? How about a barn raising to replace whatever they lost? Do you think the message would get through?
I did find it strange for Shirley to say that “the firemen did what they were supposed to do.” Did she think they wouldn’t? Did she think they would stand at the street corner and protest? Did she think they would let it burn?
Talk about paranoid!
And to think, I didn’t see a single picket sign being waved out front! It’s a wonder someone from their “church” didn’t grab one to make sure they were seen on TV.
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..Will Work for Food
Couple this with the universalist church shooting a couple of weeks ago and we are seeing those who proclaim to love God attacking others because of their message (I assume this was done by someone who disagrees with their message). I have no doubt that in both cases, the victims had a mistaken view of Christianity, but so did the attackers.
And I agree with Steve. It would be awesome to see other churches come in and aid them in this time. It probably won’t happen because most churches only attempt to help those like them, but it is a though.
On another note, I wonder how they would have felt if some were protesting during this fire saying that God punishes those he hates? That would definitely be turning the tables.
Michael’s last blog post..A Long Absence
If all have sinned and deserve death, then a little fire where no one gets hurt is nothing really. In that light, a fire could be considered a show of grace, relative to what Phelps (and everyone else) actually deserves.
On the other hand, I can see Kevin’s point and I agree. I think that Phelps et al have been bad actors in the past, and they deserve some discipline for some of those bad actions, but I think suffering a fire and its inherent dangers is not an equitable reward for the behavior. Besides, I think the kids are far less culpable - maybe not culpable at all - for the misbehavior since they are under control of the Phelps adults. So the kids may not deserve any discipline at all, and they certainly don’t deserve a fire. So I agree with Kevin’s premise: the just thing would be for people to be rewarded in accordance with their actions. Further, the just thing would be for the kids to be rewarded only for their own behavior, and not by the behavior of their parents - and certainly not for more distant ancestors, like Adam for example.
A3, you make some good points and I agree about the children.
My anger (frustration) is directed to the adults in this situation. They are certainly guilty and deserve judgment–not my judgment, mind you, but God’s. While I disagree with their actions, I’ll leave to God whatever He deems to be appropriate.
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..Will Work for Food
M. Steve Heartsill,
I think the Phelps (the adults) do indeed deserve our judgment. If they are guilty invasion of privacy and causing emotional distress, then I think that it is our duty to judge them accordingly, and to decide on the appropriate punishment - like making them pay for the damages that resulted from their actions.
If you would like for God judge them, or to judge anyone for any reason for that matter, and for God do whatever He feels is appropriate, I wouldn’t be against that at all
However I would be against ‘leaving it to God to judge people,’ in lieu of judging them ourselves (through our legal system).
Okay…A3…I see your point…and we may be splitting hairs that I don’t have here…I think we are saying the same thing, or close to it.
We can judge them according to our legal system, I’m all in favor of that. However, we can’t become judgmental. God’s judgment belongs to God. Legal system justice belongs to all of us.
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..What Would Col. Sanders Think?
It is unfortunate that children are a “residual” of someone like the Phelps’ lifestyle. Sort of like the “crack baby” being a residual of its mommas habit. Sad but it happens. I hate to see any child, black or white, rich or poor, born to bigots like the Phelps’ or born to inclusive parents, pay the price for their parent’s doings. But it happens. I can only hope that somewhere along the line someone can rescue the Phelp’s clan before the brainwashing becomes so severe they see no life outside the cult.
I see A3’s point also. My problem is that in many cases even our legal system is tied. Our prosecutor won’t even file a case for rape or molestation without a written and signed confession by the victim (no matter the age or proof). Something is wrong with that picture. I am not condoning it but it is no wonder that people are taking the law into their own hands.
I also agree with Steve. Ultimate judgment is God’s, not mine. I am to be discerning while here on earth but God will be the final Judge and jury.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..Unforgiveness
M. Steve Heartsill,
I thought you would probably agree with that and perhaps recognize the dilemma I was alluding to. I was leading back to my original comment in which I was admittedly trying to be sarcastic and funny, but I was also trying to make a real point. The hair I am splitting is this: on one hand, people feel that punishments that do not match the crime are unjust punishments. In this case, we agree that the Phelps do not deserve to have this fire because of their bad behavior and we would not wish it on them. But we wouldn’t say the same thing of say, Hitler, Stalin, or Nero; we feel that their behavior merits a fire - and much worse. On the other side of the hair, some people feel that any infraction is worthy of death because they see claims to this effect in the Bible. I don’t see how the 2 views are reconcilable.
I don’t think that ‘Leaving it in God’s hands’ helps to reconcile the 2 views. It simply forces you to either lean toward the position that God is unjust because He declares any small infraction to be punishable by death (if you take a literalist approach to interpreting the Bible, that is), or it forces you to lean toward the position that all infractions, like Phelps’ behavior, should really be punished by death - in which case a measly fire is getting of lightly.
Bill,
I couldn’t agree more about your crack-baby analogy - it really is a shame. But we have a fine line to walk: when do we act in what we believe is the child’s best interest, or when do we allow the parents have the right to decide? In this case, I would (begrudgingly) allow the parents to decide.
I also agree with the problems you mentioned with the legal system and I also can understand (but not condone) why someone would want to take the law into his own hands. I can even understand how one can trust that God will be just… unless one’s understanding of God’s justice is taken from a literalist interpretation of the Bible. In that case, I can’t see a way to resolve the conflict I’m describing - between what we all agree “justice” means, and what some accept as just based on a literalist exegesis.
I agree. The Phelps have been around for a long time spreading their message of hate. I am originally from Kansas and knew of the Phelps when I was a teen. The Bible is clear on how we are to respond, and this is simply a hate message against a hate message. It’s just as evil, if not more so, than the Phelps message of hate. This could have been very tragic. I’m angry it happened.
Debbie Kaufman’s last blog post..Finally A White Paper I Can Be Excited About
The Word of God tells us not to repay evil with evil. We as believers are to take the higher road to honor God by obeying His Word!
Nonetheless, I am not surprised at all considering Phelps and his members’ arrogant, un-loving, and yes anti-Christian, tactics. He and his group was in our community of Opelika when one of our soldiers died in the Iraq conflict. They showed up at the site of the funeral with their “illustrious” picket signs. The funeral was held at a great evangelical African-American church, Greater Peace Missionary Baptist Church, where a dear brother of mine, Clifford Jones is the pastor.
When we received word that they were coming, I called Cliff and offered our assistance. He kindly thanked me and said there would be enough security and police officers to keep things in line. The great citizens and many believers of Opelika showed up in mass numbers with their American flags and the Phelps group was hardly noticed. There was no major conflict. Hint…. it’s amazing what a 10′ by 20′ foot American flag can do to block undesirable scenery.
May those who started the fire be brought to justice. Yet, one day, Phelps and his group will have to face the judgement seat of God like all of us. That is a sobering thought!