May 24 2008
Religious Atheism?
It may seem contradictory to refer to atheism as a religion, but anti-theists are now going beyond claiming God doesn’t exist to claiming religion is the source of all the world’s problems. So-called “New Atheism” is promoting the wholesale rejection of religion for the good of humanity and advancing science.
Atheism has been around since ancient mythologies, but since 9/11 atheism has become a growth industry. Best-selling books, celebrity authors like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, new Web sites, lecture series and debates, appearances on talk shows. The New Atheists are finding footing in an American culture that’s scared, stressed, self-indulgent, and shallow. Disillusioned by churches offering feel-good pop psychology and the ever popular “Just have faith,” people are looking for answers. The New Atheists’ contention that no God would have allowed 9/11 makes sense to them.
But atheism doesn’t make sense either. Why be an anti-theist if there is no “theist”? If there is no God what are atheists so worked up about?
Read more here.
[From me]
I’ve been wondering the same questions he asked. Why be militant against something you say you don’t believe?
What do you think?
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Kevin,
I don’t consider myself militant in any regard, about atheism or anything else, but I’ll try to field the question the best I can.
Atheists are not against God (the “something” in your question). They simply don’t believe that God exists. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked why atheists hate God. If you stop and think about it, the question is meaningless: you can’t hate something that doesn’t exist. To demonstrate, you can’t hate leprechauns no matter how hard you try (unless you imagine that they exist). For someone who doesn’t believe that God exists, hating God is just as meaningless and just as impossible as hating leprechauns.
The so called “militant atheists” are not “militant” against God (that would be meaningless and impossible), they are ardently opposed to religious belief in God; an unshakable belief in something that does not exist is a delusion by definition. They feel that delusion is detrimental to society. Moderate atheist philosophers (Dennett for example), examine the value of religion in society and suggest that religion can be both valuable and detrimental, and that the potential value and potential detriment should be better understood by those who think that we would be better off without it.
Personally, I don’t lump all religion into a single category. I think that some religions are detrimental to varying degrees (militant Islam condones murder as a means to furthering their ideal) and I think other religions are beneficial to varying degrees (Jains are peaceful and focus on charity and the preservation of life).
The title of the post, the actual content of the post seem at odds. The article addresses the growing number of “neo-atheists” (which your question refers to as “militant”). However the title of the posts raises the question of atheism as a religion, but you haven’t said anything about that yet. Could you explain how atheism, even “militant atheism,” could be considered a religion?
SELECTIONS FROM THE
BOOK OF MOSES
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet, June 1830—February 1831
CHAPTER 1
(June 1830)
God reveals himself to Moses—Moses transfigured—Confrontation with Satan—Many inhabited worlds seen—Worlds without number created by the Son—God’s work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
1 The words of God, which he aspake unto Moses at a time when Moses was caught up into an exceedingly high bmountain,
2 And he asaw God bface to face, and he ctalked with him, and the dglory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence.
3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God aAlmighty, and bEndless is my cname; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?
4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore alook, and I will show thee the bworkmanship of mine chands; but not all, for my dworks are without eend, and also my fwords, for they never cease.
5 Wherefore, no man can behold all my aworks, except he behold all my bglory; and no man can cbehold all my dglory, and afterwards remain in the flesh on the earth.
6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the asimilitude of mine bOnly cBegotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the dSavior, for he is full of egrace and ftruth; but there is gno God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I hknow them all.
7 And now, behold, this one thing I show unto thee, Moses, my son, for thou art in the world, and now I show it unto thee.
8 And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the aworld upon which he was created; and Moses bbeheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly cmarveled and wondered.
9 And the apresence of God withdrew from Moses, that his bglory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he cfell unto the earth.
10 And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural astrength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that bman is cnothing, which thing I never had supposed.
11 But now mine own eyes have abeheld God; but not my bnatural, but my cspiritual eyes, for my dnatural eyes could not have ebeheld; for I should have fwithered and gdied in his presence; but his hglory was upon me; and I beheld his iface, for I was jtransfigured before him.
12 And it came to pass that when Moses had said these words, behold, aSatan came btempting him, saying: Moses, son of man, worship me.
13 And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a ason of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy bglory, that I should worship thee?
14 For behold, I could not look upon God, except his aglory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I bcan look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?
15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his aSpirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: bWorship God, for him only shalt thou cserve.
16 Get thee hence, Satan; deceive me not; for God said unto me: Thou art after the asimilitude of mine Only Begotten.
17 And he also gave me commandments when he acalled unto me out of the burning bbush, saying: cCall upon God in the name of mine Only Begotten, and worship me.
18 And again Moses said: I will not cease to call upon God, I have other things to inquire of him: for his aglory has been upon me, wherefore I can judge between him and thee. bDepart hence, Satan.
19 And now, when Moses had said these words, aSatan cried with a loud voice, and ranted upon the earth, and commanded, saying: I am the bOnly Begotten, worship me.
20 And it came to pass that Moses began to afear exceedingly; and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of bhell. Nevertheless, ccalling upon God, he received dstrength, and he commanded, saying: Depart from me, Satan, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of eglory.
21 And now Satan began to tremble, and the earth shook; and Moses received strength, and called upon God, saying: In the name of the Only Begotten, adepart hence, bSatan.
22 And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and agnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.
23 And now of this thing Moses bore record; but because of awickedness it is bnot had among the children of men.
24 And it came to pass that when Satan had departed from the presence of Moses, that Moses lifted up his eyes unto heaven, being filled with the aHoly Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son;
25 And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his aglory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a bvoice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have cchosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many dwaters; for they shall obey thy ecommand as if thou wert fGod.
26 And lo, I am awith thee, even unto the end of thy days; for thou shalt bdeliver my people from cbondage, even dIsrael my echosen.
27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and abeheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, bdiscerning it by the cspirit of God.
28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a asoul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.
29 And he beheld many lands; and each land was called aearth, and there were binhabitants on the face thereof.
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: aTell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?
31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him aface to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own bpurpose have I made these things. Here is cwisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the aword of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of bgrace and truth.
33 And aworlds without number have I bcreated; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the cSon I dcreated them, which is mine eOnly Begotten.
34 And the afirst man of all men have I called bAdam, which is cmany.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I aknow them.
36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and atell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The aheavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no aend to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my awork and my bglory—to bring to pass the cimmortality and deternal elife of man.
40 And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt awrite the things which I shall speak.
41 And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as anaught and btake many of them from the cbook which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another dlike unto thee; and they shall be ehad again among the children of men—among as many as shall believe.
42 (These words were aspoken unto Moses in the mount, the name of which shall not be known among the children of men. And now they are spoken unto you. Show them not unto any except them that believe. Even so. Amen.)
Bill
I read the chapter 1 (all of it – thanks.) of The Book of Moses that you posted. I couldn’t see how it pertained to the discussion. I’m hoping it does pertain and that you will be kind enough to explain how? Thanks once again for posting the chapter.
It takes a lot of faith not to believe in God.
Monte,
How cleaver! Let me try one:
“Here today, gone tomorrow”
wait, wait, let me try again:
“A penny earned is a penny saved”
just one more try:
“It takes two to tango”
No, it just doesn’t work when I do it. I guess not all of us have the “gift of glib”
What amuses me about the strident atheists is that they seem so darn proud of their views. But if their worldview is true, think about the logical conclusions:
- The universe came to being from nothing and became spectularly fine-tuned without an external agent to cause it
- Life came from non-life
- Life followed the path of Darwinian evolution to where we are today
- All religious beliefs came about through Darwinian evolution. Don’t look down on us, we can’t help it.
-Darwinian evolutionists have no reason to be proud of anything – they just evolved to their current set of beliefs, just as religious people did
- There is no universal morality, so any claims by Darwinian evolutionists about things being right or wrong are illogical
Oddly, I don’t see these atheists living consistently with their worldview at all. They make all sorts of moral claims and are “evangelical” in their desire to convert people to their views.
And as I’ve noted before, in their zeal to save the planet from these “detrimental delusions” the “evangelical” atheists focus almost exclusively in safe Christian places. They rarely go to or fund atheist mission trips to dangerous places. Go figure.
And while Christians are generally passionate about meeting people’s physical and spiritual needs – by donating our own money as opposed to advocated taking other’s by force (i.e., taxes) – all I see from the New Atheist’s is telling people that they really don’t have spiritual needs.
Neil’s last blog post..Does your evangelism look like this?
????
To stand in front of the Grand Canyon and not consider its creator…
To fly over the glaciers of Iceland, and not consider its creator…
To fly over the Islands of the Bahamas and see the beautiful, clear water, mixed with hues of pinks, greens, and blues and not consider their creator…
To walk through a forest of magnificent redwoods and not consider their creator…
To grow roses in your yard and not consider their creator…
To stand over a human body while performing surgery, considering the its intricacies and not consider the creator…
To ponder the earth’s place in the solar system and its exact distance from the sun and not consider the creator…
…takes a lot of faith.
Why do atheists care about religion enough to debate it? Thank you for asking. I’m happy to tell you why–and hope you will really listen. Because:
1. The constitutions of seven states–Arkansas, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Texas–prohibit atheists from holding public office or testifying in court.
2. Atheist boys cannot be members of the Boy Scouts even though the Boy Scouts commonly receive public funds and special consideration in the use of public lands.
3. Politicians like President Bush Sr. feel free to say: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”
4. Blue laws in many states restrict what can be sold on Sundays based on religious considerations.
5. The phrase “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.
6. The phrase “In god we trust” was added to U.S. coins in 1864 and to dollar bills in 1957.
7. The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation, yet I see some Christians seriously attempting to make it so.
8. Those professing religious beliefs are attempting to control what is taught in public schools so as to conform to, or at least not conflict with, their dogma. They seek, for instance, to have creationism or intelligent design passed off as science in public schools.
9. National, state, and local policy decisions are being decided based not on rational thought and discourse, but religious belief and fervor.
10. Fanatics are killing people in the name of religion.
11. Atheists are the least trusted minority in the nation simply because they have no belief in god(s).
And I could go on . . .
http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/?cid=wpats1
Dear ASKANATHEIST,
In an earlier post, you asked how my entry pertained to the discussion.
This may better answer that question…but please remember that this is my belief, and not to be misconstrued that I am pushing you to believe as I do.
You are absolutely FREE (we learn a lot about the “agency of man” in our Church) to worship and believe as you choose. And in the final analysis, to receive whatever rewards relate to the choices you made in this life (or existence)..
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b67bfccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Thanks!
Bill
That is the same freedom Soviet citizens enjoyed. You can do anything you want- the secret police will catch up in time. Or in the case of God, you can believe anything you want… until you die. Than you burn in hell as the heretic you are.
Unless you are talking about moral choices- in which case you are saying that Christians are more moral, a belief NOT born out by history.
Monte,
Thanks for posting some actual thoughts (vs. glib cliché) – now we have something to actually discuss.
There are many breathtaking beauties in nature. I myself often ponder many of the examples you gave. Of course they are all the result of natural events that most people, presumably you included, understand quite well.
But if beautiful things make you believe that God exists, what do things like these make you believe?
* bone cancer
* e. coli
* fibromyalgia
* shingles
* tsunamis
* tornadoes
* earthquakes
* autism
* malaria
* epilepsy
Do loathsome things also give you faith in God? If not, then do they case doubt on your faith in God. On the other hand, if loathsome things also give you faith, then your faith is based neither on the beauty of things, nor the loathsomeness of things. At most, you can say that “things in general” give you faith in God, regardless of their beauty or loathsomeness. However, statements like “things in general give me faith in God” don’t have the same emotional appeal as saying that “the beauty of a sunset gives me faith in God,” do they?
I HATE GOD AND ALL THE TRASH THAT COMES WITH IT .. ITS TRASH
Connie,
Thanks for stopping by. Care to elaborate?
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Render unto IRS?