May 19 2008
Where is grace anymore?
My wife and I haven’t slept very well all weekend. When we heard the news that a former boss, friend and mentor had been involved in something horrible in another state, we couldn’t believe it. He was always good to us. We love him and his family. If you asked me who of all of the people I’ve ever worked with would I think would do something so horrible, he would be the last.
We feel like someone has died! I can’t explain the way we feel. What he did was terrible, and if convicted he deserves to be punished according to the law. But, he is still our friend. God still loves him and especially his family. He deserves love and grace because we’ve all sinned. We have tried to get in touch with his family but have been unsuccessful. We want to talk with his wife and make sure they are being ministered to.
We have watched the public response from the pastor of this church to his congregation, and frankly we don’t get it. I realize he feels hurt. I realize this is embarrassing. I understand that it gives the church, the pastor and Christianity a black eye. Yes, the minister needs to be removed from the staff. But what about ministering to him and his family in a time of need. When I watched the message from the pastor, it seemed to be all about how he was hurt, his reputation, the church’s reputation and the damage to the church. What about the wife and son of this disgraced minister? What about the disgraced minister himself?
Maybe they are ministering to the family. I sure hope so! But why not make that public. The speech reminded me of the spin doctors in Washington DC. It seemed like they were trying to save face instead of falling on their faces.
I pray that we as a church will become more forgiving and show grace, not only to those who come to faith but to those who mess up within the church as well!
What do you think?
21 responses so far
Hi,
I’m from the UK, so I have no idea what the situation is, but I can say that what you describe as a church response is unfortunately a too common one. I agree with you that all connected to the situation need ministering to in some way. The Pastor’s family probably just need to know that you and others are there for them, and that might be as far as it goes for now.
The minister also needs to know the same, but he is probably in a position where he needs to have time to come to terms with whatever it is, and the consequences to come.
My denomination had a minister who had his credentials taken off him, but the denomination has attempted to minister to him, and to bring him back into his self-exile from a the church community with no gain. Ultimately people come to terms with things differently and at differing times so just make sure that you and others are genuinely there for them regardless of whether you are taken up on it.
Grace is messy, lives are messy but be patient regardless.
Unfortunately this response is all too common. I pray that even though they may not have made it known that a process of restoration has been offered to the minister and that his wife and son are being ministered to as well. I pray that a hand of grace has been offered as this man faces his consequences. I know that my Jesus would be there to offer his hand thorugh the storm and walk with him as he faces the steps to restore himself IF the man will allow him to be there.
K,
I think the fellow from the UK got it right: sometimes grace is messy. I feel bad for you and your wife. I feel bad for the family of that man (but agree that if necessary action should be taken). I feel bad for him. What I don’t feel bad for is when someone (the pastor) is so consumed with self-his reputation, his ministry, etc-that he forgets the need for grace to be extended. We can hope you have “read” him wrong and that he is extending grace and is simply unable at this time to articulate what he is feeling. Perhaps even with a “down the road look back” approach he will realize that perhaps he did not express himself correctly and seek to clarify. Until that point…you be the grace-giver (as I know you want to be). My prayers are with you and his family.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..For Your Week
Bill,
Thanks but this sure isn’t about us. We hurt for our friends. I do know that a well known minister who is no longer pastoring has made contact with them. We just don’t want the family forgotten.
While ministerial friendships and relationships do cause great pain and even denial, what the public has seen far too often in cases such as these is that ministerial collegues and churches have covered up and minimized such crimes and subsequent consequences to the perpetrators. I thought the response of the church was about right. One cannot presume from what was said that the church is not ministering to the family or the accused.
The man is not a victim. The church is a victim. The Christian ministry is a victim. His family is a victim. And, sad to say, there may indeed be other, real victims of his perversion. One gets the feeling that as the investigation is continued and evidence gathered there will be more bad news and at some level, more victims.
Although there is no underage victims known at the moment, the actions of the man to this point are deplorable and should be condemned by all. To speak of restoration is highly inappropriate at this point. Such a crime in my view disqualifies one from Christian ministry. There should be no church staff position available to this man.
Kevin,
You said, “But what about ministering to him and his family in a time of need.”
Since you are purposefully and understandably hiding the particulars of the infraction with the fallout, I can only make assumptions of the incident based solely on what I think is in the news and how that may be connected to what your recent postings relate to. That said, everything that follows in this comment is now prefaced with this word — if.
A person of high moral standing was supposedly caught in an act of less than moral standing. In that is seen him and the victim. Of this set of two, the question needs to be asked, “who needs ministering to — him or the victim? The victim.
Next, this person of whom the infractions are attributed to would have had to done this while those to which he publicly served had no idea of what was going on behind closed doors. There is a real sense that any service provided has questionable value and validity. The next question to be asked is, “who needs ministering to — him or those with doubts about his service rendered in the past? Those with doubts.
Thirdly, this person’s family looked to him for leadership in the home and instruction for life. It seems the actions negated any instruction he may have given and nullified the fidelity of his relationships in his home. Herein lies another question, “who needs ministering to — him or his family? His family.
So what of him? All through his life he put himself in a position that said he knew the answers to the questions posed to him. That comes from what he did, not by who he was. He, and ALL those who hold similiar postions, are often seen as not needing help themselves. From the time of being in grad school to now, public perception is often that of “since he is supposed to be helping us he probably doesn’t need helping.” He should have been ministered to all along in his career. The question then is not of “why is he not being ministered to now?” but of “why did he not got ministered to all along?” Where he failed personally, the institution (that is the system we have in place, not the local version alone) failed him as well. And for that the system as a whole and the local version in particular need to repent.
However, if he is who all thought him to be, there is the onus of personal accountability that he should have been aware of if nothing else then by the very grace you want everybody else to show him but which he turned his back on.
A time of ministering for the man you are concerned about will come. But in order for that to happen, the victim, the family, and those he served, need to be ministered to first. 1 Corinthians 5, from the Holy Spirit inspired pen of Paul must be allowed to play out. In time then, words from Paul’s second letter to Corinth will be able to be applied as well…
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter…it was not for the sake of the offender nor for the sake of the one offended, but that your earnestness on our behalf might be made known to you in the sight of God. For this reason we have been comforted. 2 Corinthians 7:9-13a
In His Word,
Scott
Scott’s last blog post..Behold your God!
What a lesson the church missed about Grace and ministering. Instead of saying we want to put this in the rearview mirror — why not say what he did was reprehensible but we are ministering to his family. Instead, the message I perceived is if you are a Christian and you mess up there’s the back door. I’m sure I’ve had that attitude in the past. But that isn’t what I see from Jesus.
William,
I agree there should be no staff position for him. I don’t know where that was implied. I said he should be prosecuted according to the law. But what about restoring his family? What about saying please pray for his wife?
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Where is grace anymore?
Kevin,
You have inadvertently opened the blinds to let light on the elephant that is standing in the middle of the room. You said in your above comment, “Instead, the message I perceived is if you are a Christian and you mess up there’s the back door.”
Juxtaposing this unfortunate incident and its fall out against the Biblical data, he should be treated as a non-believer (1 Corinthians 5). Any ministering that is to be done at this point should be from the context of a believer witnessing to a lost man.
That has to sink in.
As to the church doing its ministerial role to the other victims, especially the wife and family — you are absolutely right.
In His Word,
Scott
Scott’s last blog post..Behold your God!
Scott,
I understand I Corinthians 5. But isn’t that talking about an unrepentant person? I don’t know where he stands because we still haven’t gotten to talk with them. We are still trying. Are you saying I shouldn’t even talk to him?
I’ve ministered to several people who have been involved in this kind of moral failure. I couldn’t turn my back on them. One even tried to kill himself with a chainsaw when the police caught him. I went to the hospital to see him and the police wouldn’t let me in. I couldn’t just ignore him.
I believe we pay for our sins but shouldn’t we as believers reach out and try to minister? Especially to the innocent family members?
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Where is grace anymore?
Kevin, I wouldn’t presume that the church is not ministering to his family.
Kevin,
Since I am not involved in the specifics I can of course only address this in generalities.
I won’t even pretend to know what is going on with the thought processes and spiritual wrangling your friend is going through. You will find out soon enough I’m sure.
My suggestions previously come from a corporate perspective. From an individual perspective, well that may become more cloudy — or is it? Paul wrote again to Corinth commending them to restore the offending member (2 Corinthians 2:5-10ff).
Assuming that Corinth heeded Paul in the first letter, then what recourse to reconciliation of the man did the church have except that individually he was sought out and witnessed to as an unbeliever. Paul then recommends upon hearing of the man’s repentance that he be restored to fellowship with the church. But it is not the duty of the church to minister but the individuals in his life that know him and have contact with him to provide that.
It seems that the man Paul referred to needed time to come to grips with his reality. And this may indeed be the case with your friend. He is still your friend. Reach out to him and give him the gospel again. Then let the Holy Spirit work in him.
And if indeed you count him as a brother in Christ, then be reminded that when Jesus was asked how often to forgive He said, “seventy times seven” inferring as often as necessary. A spirtual wrestling match with in you is probably going on right now — how can I possibly forgive him for that? How can I not forgive him for that? Make no mistake that forgiveness is necessary but accountability is the other side of the coin. Hence, Paul’s words to Corinth.
Kevin, forgive him, then make no compromises with him about his accountability, give him the gospel, and pray the Holy Spirit will work repentance in his heart.
In His Word,
Scott
Scott’s last blog post..Behold your God!
This is what I would have expected as a response from a church:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-pastor-arrest_12may12,0,7275891.story
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Where is grace anymore?
Wow K. Just read the Tribune’s report. My heart dropped into my stomach. He is in the wrong. Grace needed. Family is wronged. Grace needed. I am a sinner. Grace needed. We are all sinners. Grace needed. Let’s not practice judgment and condemnation. Let’s practice grace and forgiveness tempered by loving discipline (is there any other kind?). But the church must be there for the family (and him).
Oh btw: I know this is not about you. But those who know him also need ministered to. My prayers…since I only know you through our blogs.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..The Church’s Worst Danger??
Kevin,
I have seen the video of the pastor and what he said about the situation. I understand your frustration with the response, I had the same thoughts as you did. I kept thinking, “What are you doing for him and his family besides allowing him to resign?”
I thought more and wonder if part of the reason for the hard-line response is because of the failings of the Catholic church in the Priest scandal and the many other times where churches have allowed situations like this to be swept under the rug. So, my question is, because of the high profile nature of the church is it taking the hard-line response for public perception? I don’t know.
What I do know is they should do what you say and show the world the right way for God’s people to respond in a situation like this to all parties involved.
Chris’s last blog post..Leaving Frostburg
Kevin,
I deeply appreciate your heartfelt sorrow for this man and his family. Yes, the CHURCH must minister to him, and his family. Yes, they are still part of the Body of Christ, and are treasured by God…and God wants to bring healing and restoration to this family. What this man did affects not only himself, but his family, and his church family. The “body of Christ” in that locale has taken a beating because of one fallible person’s “sin.”
The Scriptures remind us that we all have the potential to do the very same things and worse (1 Corinthians 10, Galatians 6)…and that we must “take heed.”
This local congregation needs to “grieve” and “mourn” what has happened…it needs to get down in their “inner being”…and since we aren’t there in person…we aren’t sure of “all the stuff” that has transpired since the “news hit the fan.”
And “grace” never neutralizes consequences…remember what Paul said in Galatians…”we will reap what we sow.”
Even when we’ve been forgiven.
Phil Hoover’s last blog post..“Hope” Merwin…home with the Lord.
Kevin: I noticed the same thing you did when watching the video and agree that the church should be ministering to the family. Christ’s life, death, resurrection, wasn’t for those who never sin, but for sin. To give us life, we should be there for those who fall in sin, to ministers, heal, bind the wounds as well as to those who have been sinned against. I’m glad you said it. You are right.
Debbie Kaufman’s last blog post..An Inspiring Post From One Of Our Workers That Illustrates Evanagelism At It’s Finest
We must remember to pray.
Quinn Hooks’s last blog post..Getting Gored Again
Kevin,
Unfortunately, all too often in the church, we shoot the wounded rather than tend to their wounds. I have seen it way too much in the churches I have served and attended. I have also felt the arrows of pain shot my way. Those who I thought were friends were no where to be found during those times. Fellow ministers didn’t come to my aid, rather they stood off to the side and allowed others to inflict their pain.
Sad, really is. That’s not the church Christ created. That’s not the church I was called to serve.
I don’t find much consolation in the church when you are hurting, whether self-inflicted or inflicted by others. I’ve come to realize that while the church, her leaders, and her members may not respond appropriately during such times, God never fails. NEVER!
M. Steve Heartsill’s last blog post..A Successful Edit
My friends son told me yesterday his dad is broken. So I don’t think I Corinthians 5 applies here. I would rather err on the side of grace.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..ecotheology?
Hi Kevin–
You asked me an important question…how to show grace…
–collectively, teach your church with this case study. wrestle with it. talk about it…do something insane–like send money, make sure bills are being paid, have your members write letters to every family member (and especially to your friend). sounds like this incident involved a crime/victim. that victim should be lifted in prayer. affirmed for the strength to come forward (if that is what happened). your writing suggests you have a communication gift and bright mind. use those with your church to bring a collective response from a body/fellowship/local expression of the church.
–long term- suicide will be on this person’s mind. his depression, shame, guilt will deepen as the responses and consequences of sin hit him and those he loves, like a tsunami. this agonizing process will unfold for the next year—minimally (and for years, if there is prison involved). settle in for the long haul. establish a strategy to stay next to this family. partner with those in his local church who may or may not be doing something. i assure you he’s getting hate mail. he can’t go out of his house without pain; nor can his family. make sure they are getting an equal measure of kindness. staying with them –not just through, but after–the storm is character quaility of perserverance.
–personally, find a way to see this man, pray with him, hold him. yes, guys can do that. you don’t have to ‘fix’ anything, nor can you. long after he’s forgotten your words, he will remember you came.
–a pressing, and oft overlooked aspect of this is financial ruin. This family needs help. They will for a year.
–teach: yes, there are consequences–but Christians are to alleviate burdens, not add to. I assure you, God doesn’t need help in the spiritual realm for us to reap what we sow. your friend will suffer way more than anyone will ever know. so, do the outrageous…show the undeserved…THAT is grace.
beyond simple compassion, or sympathy or empathy or generosity…show the outrageous…the stuff that makes the world say: “Are you freakin crazy? The guy deserves a bullet, not a house payment”
ahhhh…..if it isn’t amazing, it’s not grace. hope this stimulates your thinking and response.
brad johnson’s last blog post..Do Anything You Want
Brad,
Thanks so much for your response. I encourage anyone reading this to check back in the morning. I have a post based on some thoughts that came from Brad. I think Brad’s story needs to be heard and heard loudly!
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..ecotheology?