I’m really trying to see your point of view. I just can’t.

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You are unable to state what you think my point is?

This is one of those areas that I can’t believe people of faith or no faith would agree on. Porn causes so many problems. I guess I’m at a loss.

Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Is he really the spokesman for the “emerging church?”

I don’t see how I’ve circumvented anything.

I believe you. But I don’t think I have the ability to make you understand how you circumvented it. Maybe have a second look at what I said my point was in my first 2 posts, and then try to summarize it so we can see if we both share the same understanding of what my point is?

I don’t see how I’ve circumvented anything. I’m talking about real life counseling I’ve done. I’m talking about lives I’ve seen shattered because of Porn. I’ve never met anyone who at the end of their life said I wish I had watched more porn. My basis is from 1st hand ministry.

Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Is he really the spokesman for the “emerging church?”

Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner - I didn’t have ready internet access for the past few days. Anyway, if you recall, I said in my first post:

“I’ll also predict that you will circumvent my point in this discussion - many times I’m hoping you will prove my prediction wrong this time and in future discussions. My point in the above is not to show if pornography is good or bad, it is to show that your claim that “nothing” good comes from pornography doesn’t have a basis - if there is even one good thing that comes from pornography, then you can’t very well say that “nothing” good comes from it.”

And you didn’t disappoint! :)) Sure enough, you are circumventing my point - my point was that “your claim that ‘nothing’ good comes from pornography doesn’t have a basis - if there is even one good thing that comes from pornography, then you can’t very well say that “nothing” good comes from it.” In my first post, I named a few good things that come from it. Your response? You said:

I haven’t had as many counseling sessions as my father. But I have never met anyone who is struggling with Porn saying they are glad they look at it. Everyone I counsel with says they wish they had never been exposed to it. That is why we have filters on our computers.

To sum up, I said that there’s no basis for your claim that “there is “NOTHING” good that comes from porn.” Then I named a few good things. You responded by saying that people that struggle with porn aren’t glad they looked at it.

I love it!

I can make it incredibly painful for my son if he ever gets caught with porn. As his daddy, I intend for there to be rules. However, I would much PREFER that he realize it’s “wrongness” for himself and stay away because he wants to follow Christ, rather than JUST because Daddy said so. I want Christ to change his heart rather than me having to rule his every moment.

I’m not pro-alcohol either. I don’t drink at all. But I don’t want my daughter’s future husband looking at Playboy or any of the worse hard core mess either.

I don’t see this as the church vs. Porn. I see it as Porn vs. society. Porn never produces good behavior.

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Perhaps we need to define moderation. I am as “anti-porn” as you could ever ask for. I hate it. I despise its “attractiveness”. I don’t deny its power. I hate what it does to women. I hate what it does to men. I hate what it does to ME.

Perhaps we also need to clarify why alcohol is, to me, just as deadly as porn. But I don’t have time to write all that right now. You’ll never convince ME that “moderation” in alcohol is consistent, simply because of the fact that you’ll never convince me of the “drunk” point. Is it 0.08%, or is it 0.04%? If I’m too drunk to drive, am I not too drunk to be Christlike? If I can’t handle an 80,000 pound tractor-trailer at 0.04%, why am I okay to lead someone to Christ? I consider my testimony an easier thing to damage than a Mercedes Benz, but all we seem worried about is whether the Bible specifically outlaws beer consumption… What about flying? If I’m too drunk to pilot the aircraft that you are flying on, would that not be “drunk”??? Pilots are forbidden to consume alcohol within a certain number of hours before flying. This is because lives are at risk and the judgment of the pilot could easily be negatively affected. So, it’s okay for a Christian to consume a beer and be negatively affected, but not a pilot who’s flying a plane? As well, every freaking drunk driver in the nation gets behind the wheel of his car saying “I’m not drunk…” Moderation with alcohol is deadly. I’ll also need to clarify that my personal prohibition against alcohol is not based on a Bible verse, but rather a Biblical principle.

There are MANY men who will read Playboy but not seek after “hard core” pornography. I define that as “moderation”. I do NOT define that as “okay” or “acceptable”. Your definition of “moderation” seems to include the caveat that “if it’s done in moderation, it’s okay.” I’m not saying that. Fornication in moderation is sin. Period. Murder in moderation is sin. Period. Lust in moderation is sin. (”I only drool when I see women in bikinis…”) I’m simply saying there are “levels” of consumption. Please don’t assign me the role of “unwise” or “needs counseling” or “porn addict” or whatever. xxxchurch.com is not a new thing to me. I like what they do. It’s much more valuable than fighting to outlaw porn. But that doesn’t mean that some consumers are not more moderate than others. Books of nude photography are pornographic when in the hands of 13 year olds, but are regarded as completely innocent by supposedly “artistic” photographers and art critics. Levels. Not of SIN, but of consumption.

I’m simply trying - badly, I suppose - to further the conviction that I have that we as Christians are not called to impose our morality by governmental authority. We are called to spread the Gospel. Sinners need to be forgiven of sin, not forced to live under legislated morality.

Our country is FAR from God. Far far far. 2 Chronicles 7:14 tells us to pray. Not make laws. Not lobby for new laws. Pray. People are far from God because they do not KNOW God. Outlawing porn could have wonderful results in that many many many Christians might be less tempted to consume it.

But would that law lead non-believers to salvation? I’m not meaning to say yes or no, I’m simply pointing out that I struggle with this issue.

In Christ,
Bernard

I think there is a huge difference between alcohol and porn. I would argue porn affects everyone, Christians and non-Christians. Porn leads to crime and destroyed marriages. That affects everyone. There is nothing good that can come from it. There is no such thing as moderation when it comes to porn because people want more. I don’t want my neighbor looking at that junk because it may affect my family. How? Because if he/she is looking at child porn they might want to lure my children. You will never convince me there is moderation with porn. I have counseled numerous people whose lives have been destroyed because of porn. You need to check out http://www.xxxchurch.com to see more dangers.

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