Legislation that would restrict the sale of certain men’s magazines on U.S. military bases around the world would be bad for morale, according to soldiers at Grafenwöhr.
U.S. Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., has introduced legislation that would close a loophole in the current law that allows the sale of some sexually explicit material on military bases by lowering the threshold required to deem material “sexually explicit.”
A Department of Defense committee that reviews materials sold on bases ruled last year that magazines such as Playboy and Penthouse are not pornographic. But Broun’s Military Honor and Decency Act includes language that could make those magazines eligible for the ban.
The prospect of missing out on men’s magazines was not welcomed by soldiers at Grafenwöhr.
“We all read ‘em,” said Pfc. Paul Rubio, 31, of Bakersfield, Calif. “There are times we just read ‘em for the technological parts like the new gadgets that come out. They have good stories sometimes too.”
Sgt. Simon Brown, 34, of Daytona Beach, Fla., said men’s magazines build morale. “It’s not all about the pictures, although 80 percent of it is,” he said.
Pfc. Greg Smith, 21, of Northboro, Mass., a regular Playboy reader, said soldiers should be allowed to buy nudie magazines at the exchange.
“Playboy is good entertainment while you are on the can. They have jokes and good stories,” he said.
Broun, a Marine veteran, told Newsweek recently that the magazines sold in military exchanges are partly responsible for a rise in sexual assaults in the military and other problems.
“Allowing the sale of pornography on military bases has harmed military men and women by: escalating the number of violent, sexual crimes; feeding a base addiction; eroding the family as the primary building block of society; and denigrating the moral standing of our troops both here and abroad,” Broun says on his Web site.
Army and Air Force Exchange service public relations manager Judd Anstey said AAFES sold $231,000 worth of Penthouse, Playboy and Playgirl magazines in Europe last year.
Read more here.
[From me]
I’m sure all of the soldiers read these “magazines” for the articles, right? I’m sure A3, will argue with me but there is “NOTHING” good that comes from porn. It has been my experience from my 16+ years in vocational ministry that pornography doesn’t relax people it makes them want to act on their urges. My goodness, when I served on staff at a church near Camp LeJeune Marine base I was told that 40% of the marriages of the Marines failed within 6 months of the Marines returning from deployment. Porn figured into the destruction of these marriages.
This is a subject the church is not comfortable talking about but it is a “real” problem. Porn destroys!
What do you think?
[HT] My dad
23 Comments, Comment or Ping
AskAnAtheist.org
Kevin,
We’ve seen from the article that soldiers are entertained by pornography; that’s one good thing about it.
Here’s another: Anthony D’amato, Northwestern University Law Professor, in his paper “Porn Up, Rape Down” (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=913013), analysis recent statistics and concludes:
“The incidence of rape in the United States has declined 85 per cent in the past 25 years while access to pornography has become freely available to teenagers and adults. The Nixon and Reagan Commissions tried to show that exposure to pornographic materials produced social violence. The reverse may be true: that pornography has reduced social violence.”
He further notes that states with the lowest internet access had the highest increase in rape incidents (53% increase) between 1980 and 2004, but the 4 states with the highest internet access, had the largest decrease in rape incidents (27% decrease).
He guesses (and I think it’s a good guess - but I’d like to see some numbers) that the reason for the correlation is that porn counteracts the “Victorian Effect” (where obsession with covering up generates excess fascination with sex).
The Australian Bureau of Statistics shows the same reduction of sexual crime and during the same period that the web (and internet porn) became prevalent: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/669C5A997EAED891CA2568A900139405
And just as you know me well enough by now to predict that I would disagree with your position, I’ll also predict that you will circumvent my point in this discussion - many times
I’m hoping you will prove my prediction wrong this time and in future discussions. My point in the above is not to show if pornography is good or bad, it is to show that your claim that “nothing” good comes from pornography doesn’t have a basis - if there is even one good thing that comes from pornography, then you can’t very well say that “nothing” good comes from it.
May 9th, 2008
AskAnAtheist.org
(Kevin: spam-filter alert - I thought this might happen - my last post had a few links and the word, “pornography,” in it so it was caught by the spam filter. If you find it and post it, feel free to delete this advisory if you like)
May 9th, 2008
Frank Bussey
Kevin ,
Great topic….
I have counseled several couples whose marriages were destroyed by pornography. When a man fills his mind with those graphic and usually perverted sexual scenes and actions of loose sex, it is unfair to his wife who can’t compete with those fantasies. When the man with those scenes in his mind is involved sexually with his wife, those scenes flash into his mind making his wife unexciting to him. As Christ said, for a man to look upon a woman to lust after her, that man has committed adultery already in his mind.
God does not say sex is ugly, sinful and dirty. Porn does. Sex was designed and created by God to be ….ENJOYED…. by a husband and wife in marriage. Hugh Hefner and Larry Flint did not invent sex, God did and said …….SEX was …..GOOD!
Several years ago, when watching Hollywood Squares on TV, a question was asked …… which women found the most enjoyment in sex. The answer was surprising to the panel. It was women with deep religious convictions, not the women who were actively engaged in sex outside of marriage.
The world has perverted and distorted what God created for our enjoyment within marriage to draw a husband and wife together, where a man is fascinated, fulfilled and satisfied by his wife, not other women. ………… Satan is a Liar!
May 9th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
A3,
I haven’t had as many counseling sessions as my father. But I have never met anyone who is struggling with Porn saying they are glad they look at it. Everyone I counsel with says they wish they had never been exposed to it. That is why we have filters on our computers.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Soldiers Say Porn Ban May Hurt Morale
May 9th, 2008
Bernard Shuford
While I am fully on the prayer wagon that porn should disappear, this is one area I struggle with the question of “Should I, as a Christian, waste my salt and light by working to impose my own morality on people who do not even believe in God?”
I honestly don’t know the correct balance. I have the same problem with alcohol - a personal conviction that there is MUCH wrong with it and it should not exist in a Christian’s life, while being aware that most of the people who consume alcohol (porn, in this case), are not even followers of Christ.
Societal issues versus Christian involvement is difficult. I think laws against porn are justified because I think that many women are exploited in the MANUFACTURING of porn. Men as well, but look at the overwhelming majority of women… I think the industry could be justifiably shut down because of the disclaimers, illegal contracts, disease exposure, forced abortions, etc. etc., that they undergo as “employees” of the industry. But here, I’m “fighting” because of a distinct evil in the industry, not because the consumption of porn in itself is any worse than some other evil for a non-Christian.
Outlawing the sale of porn on military bases is, to me, censorship. I’m not a fan of censorship in any form except that of the head of a household, because it leads to religious intolerance. Telling a Satanist that he cannot “witness” to a friend might seem like a great Christian act, until we realize that non-Christians regard all religions as the same, and thus the Christian loses the freedom to spread the Gospel without governmental restraint.
Thus, my thoughts are torn. I pray for healing for ALL victims of porn, and I pray that those who consume it will come to know Christ, or, if they are already Christians, that they will be set free from that bondage. This would kill the industry and set the women trapped in it free as well, and hopefully they would find Christ, too.
Would we be better served, as Christians, to buy full page ads in Playboy and actually share the gospel through that medium? Boy, that oughtta raise a few eyebrows…
May 9th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
Bernard,
I believe Porn affects everyone. If you watch Law and Order SVU you can see porn affects criminals.
I think porn is much different than alcohol. There are many people who can drink in moderation. I don’t think porn can ever be done in moderation-just from my experience in counseling.
You have a great point about the ads though. I kind of like that idea. XXX Church has been ministering to the porn industry for years.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Soldiers Say Porn Ban May Hurt Morale
May 9th, 2008
Phil Hoover
As a military veteran, I say BAN THE PORN, and ban it now!
PORNOGRAPHY always destroys…..it never edifies, or brings “good.”
IT ALWAYS destroys!
Phil Hoover’s last blog post..Friendship Factor #4: “Not a moment too soon”
May 9th, 2008
Neil
Pornography = poison. It doesn’t have redeeming qualities.
Neil’s last blog post..The Ultimate Christmas Tree
May 9th, 2008
Bill(cycleguy)
I preached last week on ‘I Work Hard to Stay Pure” and read countless stats about porn. It is a cancer on the family, marriage and the soul. If they read it for the articles why don’t they sell it with just that and the new technological stuff? Easy. They wouldn’t sell $231,000+ worth of it. That is classic justification.
Bill(cycleguy)’s last blog post..No More Silence
May 9th, 2008
Angie
I think porn is deplorable and I’m all for filters and couples and parents working to keep it from their homes. What concerns me is the issue Bernard brought up. Banning it is a form of censorship. If you ban it, what gets banned next? It’s somewhat of a slippery slope and what “good stuff” gets caught up in a censorship fight?
Most soldiers I know (and I know a good number of them) believe in the idea that “I may not agree with what you’re saying but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” Regardless of what we personally believe, freedom of the press (regardless of how smutty it is) is a government-granted right. We jump up and down and scream and holler about freedom of religion and the “abuses” of the concept of separation of church and state (I know that phrase isn’t in the Constitution) but now we want to deny a people a Constitutional right? Comes off just a bit hypocritical in my opinion.
May 9th, 2008
Christine
As a woman who worked in a male-dominated career field while active duty in the military, I agree with Phil. Pornography has absolutely no place in the military. It not only affects how a male treats his wife/girlfriend/etc. but how he treats his female co-workers. Infidelity is extremely high in the military, and I believe it is partly due to the flippant attitude towards sex. “What goes TDY, stays TDY” is a well know phrase. (TDY = temporary duty) Pornography encourages this attitude.
As a wife, porn has no place in the home as well. My ex-husband was addicted to porn. He imposed his twisted fantasies on me and the result was rape and abuse. It all started “simple” enough with him just looking at mags and nothing more.
Nothing good comes from porn. Ever.
As far as censoring issue, in this case anything that distracts a soldier from his duty can get him killed. Corporations often monitor/filter porn sites from their systems to encourage productivity why not the military?
Christine’s last blog post..Keeping it Short
May 10th, 2008
Cassandra
Bernard,
You state in your post that you are aware that “MOST people who consume porn are not even followers of Christ.”
Actually, NUMEROUS Christians view porn on a regular basis. I know countless Christians and Christian couples who are, and have been destroyed by it! It is just as prevalent among believers as it is among unbelievers. Porn is one of Satan’s prime weapons that is destroying Christian’s and Christian families today!
It’s stronghold through the privacy of the Internet is absolutely heart wrenching!
May 10th, 2008
Bernard Shuford
Cassandra - No contest to “NUMEROUS”. There is no denial on my part that Christians consume porn. My point is that I am convinced that the MAJORITY of people who consume porn are not truly followers of Christ. True followers of Christ who consume porn will be made miserable by their sin, as your statement points out. If the countless people you know are viewing porn regularly are not convicted by the Holy Spirit for their sin, I would counsel them to read the Bible as “regularly” as they view porn - perhaps even at the same time - and “see if they are truly in the faith.”
Please don’t misunderstand my statement. My “argument” is that to outlaw porn largely affects non-Christians who disagree with us more than it does Christians who would agree with us.
My argument is not for pornography. My argument is that making porn unavailable to soldiers on base doesn’t give the soldier the Gospel, and the job of the church is to spread the gospel.
Kevin - I would argue that pornography CAN be consumed in moderation, but that doesn’t make it acceptable. My personal opinion of alcohol is similar to yours with pornography. A clear Biblical prohibition is difficult to find, but the principles that are taught lead me to a clear conclusion for myself. That said, I am better served, I believe, as a Christian, to lead the porn consumer and the drunkard to Jesus Christ than I am to tell them that they need to give up the part of their life that is sinful. I could outlaw porn and alcohol all day long, and those men would still die and go to hell if they don’t know Jesus Christ. Are we really concerned about their souls, or do we just want to “win America back”? Do we want to outlaw sin, or do we want sinners to meet Jesus Christ? Let’s get the church on track with the job that Jesus Christ gave us, and if that’s unclear, let’s reference Acts 1:8.
May 12th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
Bernard,
I think there is a huge difference between alcohol and porn. I would argue porn affects everyone, Christians and non-Christians. Porn leads to crime and destroyed marriages. That affects everyone. There is nothing good that can come from it. There is no such thing as moderation when it comes to porn because people want more. I don’t want my neighbor looking at that junk because it may affect my family. How? Because if he/she is looking at child porn they might want to lure my children. You will never convince me there is moderation with porn. I have counseled numerous people whose lives have been destroyed because of porn. You need to check out http://www.xxxchurch.com to see more dangers.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Planned Parenthood Promotes Mother’s Day Abortions, Draws Protests
May 12th, 2008
Bernard Shuford
Kevin - Please don’t miss my point.
Perhaps we need to define moderation. I am as “anti-porn” as you could ever ask for. I hate it. I despise its “attractiveness”. I don’t deny its power. I hate what it does to women. I hate what it does to men. I hate what it does to ME.
Perhaps we also need to clarify why alcohol is, to me, just as deadly as porn. But I don’t have time to write all that right now. You’ll never convince ME that “moderation” in alcohol is consistent, simply because of the fact that you’ll never convince me of the “drunk” point. Is it 0.08%, or is it 0.04%? If I’m too drunk to drive, am I not too drunk to be Christlike? If I can’t handle an 80,000 pound tractor-trailer at 0.04%, why am I okay to lead someone to Christ? I consider my testimony an easier thing to damage than a Mercedes Benz, but all we seem worried about is whether the Bible specifically outlaws beer consumption… What about flying? If I’m too drunk to pilot the aircraft that you are flying on, would that not be “drunk”??? Pilots are forbidden to consume alcohol within a certain number of hours before flying. This is because lives are at risk and the judgment of the pilot could easily be negatively affected. So, it’s okay for a Christian to consume a beer and be negatively affected, but not a pilot who’s flying a plane? As well, every freaking drunk driver in the nation gets behind the wheel of his car saying “I’m not drunk…” Moderation with alcohol is deadly. I’ll also need to clarify that my personal prohibition against alcohol is not based on a Bible verse, but rather a Biblical principle.
There are MANY men who will read Playboy but not seek after “hard core” pornography. I define that as “moderation”. I do NOT define that as “okay” or “acceptable”. Your definition of “moderation” seems to include the caveat that “if it’s done in moderation, it’s okay.” I’m not saying that. Fornication in moderation is sin. Period. Murder in moderation is sin. Period. Lust in moderation is sin. (”I only drool when I see women in bikinis…”) I’m simply saying there are “levels” of consumption. Please don’t assign me the role of “unwise” or “needs counseling” or “porn addict” or whatever. xxxchurch.com is not a new thing to me. I like what they do. It’s much more valuable than fighting to outlaw porn. But that doesn’t mean that some consumers are not more moderate than others. Books of nude photography are pornographic when in the hands of 13 year olds, but are regarded as completely innocent by supposedly “artistic” photographers and art critics. Levels. Not of SIN, but of consumption.
I’m simply trying - badly, I suppose - to further the conviction that I have that we as Christians are not called to impose our morality by governmental authority. We are called to spread the Gospel. Sinners need to be forgiven of sin, not forced to live under legislated morality.
Our country is FAR from God. Far far far. 2 Chronicles 7:14 tells us to pray. Not make laws. Not lobby for new laws. Pray. People are far from God because they do not KNOW God. Outlawing porn could have wonderful results in that many many many Christians might be less tempted to consume it.
But would that law lead non-believers to salvation? I’m not meaning to say yes or no, I’m simply pointing out that I struggle with this issue.
In Christ,
Bernard
May 12th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
Bernard,
I’m not pro-alcohol either. I don’t drink at all. But I don’t want my daughter’s future husband looking at Playboy or any of the worse hard core mess either.
I don’t see this as the church vs. Porn. I see it as Porn vs. society. Porn never produces good behavior.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Planned Parenthood Promotes Mother’s Day Abortions, Draws Protests
May 12th, 2008
Bernard Shuford
Agreed. Let’s pray that our daughters’ future husbands are given the grace and power to resist that temptation. Along with my son. And his future wife.
I can make it incredibly painful for my son if he ever gets caught with porn. As his daddy, I intend for there to be rules. However, I would much PREFER that he realize it’s “wrongness” for himself and stay away because he wants to follow Christ, rather than JUST because Daddy said so. I want Christ to change his heart rather than me having to rule his every moment.
May 12th, 2008
AskAnAtheist.org
Kevin,
Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner - I didn’t have ready internet access for the past few days. Anyway, if you recall, I said in my first post:
“I’ll also predict that you will circumvent my point in this discussion - many times
I’m hoping you will prove my prediction wrong this time and in future discussions. My point in the above is not to show if pornography is good or bad, it is to show that your claim that “nothing” good comes from pornography doesn’t have a basis - if there is even one good thing that comes from pornography, then you can’t very well say that “nothing” good comes from it.”
And you didn’t disappoint! :)) Sure enough, you are circumventing my point - my point was that “your claim that ‘nothing’ good comes from pornography doesn’t have a basis - if there is even one good thing that comes from pornography, then you can’t very well say that “nothing” good comes from it.” In my first post, I named a few good things that come from it. Your response? You said:
To sum up, I said that there’s no basis for your claim that “there is “NOTHING” good that comes from porn.” Then I named a few good things. You responded by saying that people that struggle with porn aren’t glad they looked at it.
I love it!
May 12th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
A3,
I don’t see how I’ve circumvented anything. I’m talking about real life counseling I’ve done. I’m talking about lives I’ve seen shattered because of Porn. I’ve never met anyone who at the end of their life said I wish I had watched more porn. My basis is from 1st hand ministry.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Is he really the spokesman for the “emerging church?”
May 12th, 2008
AskAnAtheist.org
Kevin,
I believe you. But I don’t think I have the ability to make you understand how you circumvented it. Maybe have a second look at what I said my point was in my first 2 posts, and then try to summarize it so we can see if we both share the same understanding of what my point is?
May 12th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
A3,
This is one of those areas that I can’t believe people of faith or no faith would agree on. Porn causes so many problems. I guess I’m at a loss.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Is he really the spokesman for the “emerging church?”
May 12th, 2008
AskAnAtheist.org
Kevin,
You are unable to state what you think my point is?
May 12th, 2008
Kevin Bussey
A3,
I’m really trying to see your point of view. I just can’t.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Is he really the spokesman for the “emerging church?”
May 12th, 2008
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