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	<title>Comments on: African American Woman suspended for claiming homosexuals are not &#8220;civil rights victims.”</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/</link>
	<description>confessions of a follower of Jesus Christ struggling to recover from legalism</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5</generator>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7162</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7162</guid>
		<description>Phil,

Who claimed that “skin color” and “sexual orientation” are equivalents/synonyms?  We should also make sure that he/she realizes that race and gender aren't synonyms, race and faith aren't synonyms, race and age aren't synonyms, etc. even though they are all potential sources of discrimination that that have no place in our free, civil society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p>Who claimed that “skin color” and “sexual orientation” are equivalents/synonyms?  We should also make sure that he/she realizes that race and gender aren&#8217;t synonyms, race and faith aren&#8217;t synonyms, race and age aren&#8217;t synonyms, etc. even though they are all potential sources of discrimination that that have no place in our free, civil society.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Hoover</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7155</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Hoover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7155</guid>
		<description>There are some "civil rights" that all people should be able to enjoy...

But "skin color" and "sexual orientation" are not equivalents/synonyms....

&lt;em&gt;Phil Hoover's last blog post..&lt;a href='http://philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com/2008/05/sixteen-years-ago-last-night.html' rel="nofollow"&gt;Sixteen years ago last night...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some &#8220;civil rights&#8221; that all people should be able to enjoy&#8230;</p>
<p>But &#8220;skin color&#8221; and &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; are not equivalents/synonyms&#8230;.</p>
<p><em>Phil Hoover&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com/2008/05/sixteen-years-ago-last-night.html' rel="nofollow">Sixteen years ago last night&#8230;</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: AskAnAtheist.org</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7145</link>
		<dc:creator>AskAnAtheist.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7145</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Kevin,&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Why do we need special laws based on who someone sleeps with?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Marriage is in part a set of special laws concerned with, as you say, "who someone sleeps with."  I think marriage laws are good to have and I don't see why we should not have them simply because they are "special laws based on who someone sleeps with."

On the other hand, you said earlier that "Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen."  However that's not the case.  Heterosexuals have the right to enter into a marriage contract with the person they want to share their life with because that person is of the opposite sex.  Homosexuals do not enjoy that same right.  Fortunately, that is beginning to change in some states with civil unions which offer nearly the same (and in some cases, identical) rights as marriage.  My bet is that, before too long, you will be right when you say that "homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen" - you just might have to be a little patient ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Kevin,</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>
Why do we need special laws based on who someone sleeps with?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Marriage is in part a set of special laws concerned with, as you say, &#8220;who someone sleeps with.&#8221;  I think marriage laws are good to have and I don&#8217;t see why we should not have them simply because they are &#8220;special laws based on who someone sleeps with.&#8221;</p>
<p>On the other hand, you said earlier that &#8220;Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen.&#8221;  However that&#8217;s not the case.  Heterosexuals have the right to enter into a marriage contract with the person they want to share their life with because that person is of the opposite sex.  Homosexuals do not enjoy that same right.  Fortunately, that is beginning to change in some states with civil unions which offer nearly the same (and in some cases, identical) rights as marriage.  My bet is that, before too long, you will be right when you say that &#8220;homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen&#8221; - you just might have to be a little patient <img src='http://kevinbussey.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7144</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia summarizes the arguments for and against hate crimes laws: &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crimes#Arguments_for_hate_crime_laws" rel="nofollow"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia summarizes the arguments for and against hate crimes laws: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crimes#Arguments_for_hate_crime_laws" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7143</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7143</guid>
		<description>Why do we need special laws based on who someone sleeps with?  Abuse is abuse.  Bullying is bullying.    I'm against all of that but not based on sexual preference but because they are human beings.  That should be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do we need special laws based on who someone sleeps with?  Abuse is abuse.  Bullying is bullying.    I&#8217;m against all of that but not based on sexual preference but because they are human beings.  That should be enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7142</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7142</guid>
		<description>In my opinion, the argument that skin color is not a choice but sexual lifestyle is a choice is not at all relevant to the key issue here.  The point is that neither the color of someone's skin nor their (legal) sexual lifestyle practices should be the basis for discrimination in our civil society.  This is the substance of overlap between the racial civil rights and gay civil rights movements and is not insignificant.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t buy it. When are we going to start having civil rights for adulterers?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What are you talking about?  If I violate your civil rights because you are an adulterer, I'm not justified in my actions.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen. But you shouldn’t give anyone “SPECIAL” rights based on who they sleep with.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I guess I don't know where you're going with "SPECIAL" unless you're mad about hate crimes laws.  Yes, racial minorities and homosexuals have as many rights as any other citizen.  Though not as pervasive as in the past, discrimination based on race and sexual preference are still significant problems that need to be addressed in the maturation and development of our just and civil society.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet I have never met an ex-Negro, ex-Caucasian or ex-Native American.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
ex-Negro = Michael Jackson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, the argument that skin color is not a choice but sexual lifestyle is a choice is not at all relevant to the key issue here.  The point is that neither the color of someone&#8217;s skin nor their (legal) sexual lifestyle practices should be the basis for discrimination in our civil society.  This is the substance of overlap between the racial civil rights and gay civil rights movements and is not insignificant.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t buy it. When are we going to start having civil rights for adulterers?</p></blockquote>
<p>What are you talking about?  If I violate your civil rights because you are an adulterer, I&#8217;m not justified in my actions.</p>
<blockquote><p>Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen. But you shouldn’t give anyone “SPECIAL” rights based on who they sleep with.</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess I don&#8217;t know where you&#8217;re going with &#8220;SPECIAL&#8221; unless you&#8217;re mad about hate crimes laws.  Yes, racial minorities and homosexuals have as many rights as any other citizen.  Though not as pervasive as in the past, discrimination based on race and sexual preference are still significant problems that need to be addressed in the maturation and development of our just and civil society.</p>
<blockquote><p>Yet I have never met an ex-Negro, ex-Caucasian or ex-Native American.</p></blockquote>
<p>ex-Negro = Michael Jackson</p>
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		<title>By: AskAnAtheist.org</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7141</link>
		<dc:creator>AskAnAtheist.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7141</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Kevin,&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen. But you shouldn’t give anyone “SPECIAL” rights based on who they sleep with.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, since you are making me guess, I'll guessing that your response means we're now talking about none of the above, but rather a new topic: should gays enjoy "special" or "gay" rights. Great - then since you are now turning our discussion to another now topic, is it fair to presume you that accepted my points:

* 'that homosexuality is a choice' is not a fact - though I agree that having sex or not is a choice

* black civil-rights leaders would not necessarily be "ticked" about the connection between gay rights and the Civil Rights movement as Neil suggested.


So now on to you latest topic.  What "special" rights are you opposed to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Kevin,</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>
Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen. But you shouldn’t give anyone “SPECIAL” rights based on who they sleep with.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, since you are making me guess, I&#8217;ll guessing that your response means we&#8217;re now talking about none of the above, but rather a new topic: should gays enjoy &#8220;special&#8221; or &#8220;gay&#8221; rights. Great - then since you are now turning our discussion to another now topic, is it fair to presume you that accepted my points:</p>
<p>* &#8216;that homosexuality is a choice&#8217; is not a fact - though I agree that having sex or not is a choice</p>
<p>* black civil-rights leaders would not necessarily be &#8220;ticked&#8221; about the connection between gay rights and the Civil Rights movement as Neil suggested.</p>
<p>So now on to you latest topic.  What &#8220;special&#8221; rights are you opposed to?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7137</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7137</guid>
		<description>A3,

Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen.  But you shouldn't give anyone "SPECIAL" rights based on who they sleep with.

&lt;em&gt;Kevin Bussey's last blog post..&lt;a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ConfessionsOfARecoveringPharisee/~3/285566202/' rel="nofollow"&gt;Coming Soon: A Wii Pole Dancing Game&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A3,</p>
<p>Homosexuals have just as many rights as any other citizen.  But you shouldn&#8217;t give anyone &#8220;SPECIAL&#8221; rights based on who they sleep with.</p>
<p><em>Kevin Bussey&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ConfessionsOfARecoveringPharisee/~3/285566202/' rel="nofollow">Coming Soon: A Wii Pole Dancing Game</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: AskAnAtheist.org</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7135</link>
		<dc:creator>AskAnAtheist.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7135</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Kevin,&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I don’t buy it. When are we going to start having civil rights for adulterers?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Adulterers currently do have civil rights. ;)

But now I'm really confused.

Are we talking about the root cause of homosexuality...

...or are we talking about whether Civil Rights leaders would be "ticked" about the connection between gay rights and the Civil Rights movement...

...or are we talking about your choice to act on your sexual urges...

...or are we talking about whether gays should have Civil Rights (or whatever you might have intended for your last post to mean)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Kevin,</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>
I don’t buy it. When are we going to start having civil rights for adulterers?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Adulterers currently do have civil rights. <img src='http://kevinbussey.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But now I&#8217;m really confused.</p>
<p>Are we talking about the root cause of homosexuality&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;or are we talking about whether Civil Rights leaders would be &#8220;ticked&#8221; about the connection between gay rights and the Civil Rights movement&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;or are we talking about your choice to act on your sexual urges&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;or are we talking about whether gays should have Civil Rights (or whatever you might have intended for your last post to mean)?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.com/2008/05/07/african-american-woman-claims-homosexuals-are-not-civil-rights-victims%e2%80%9d/#comment-7134</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 18:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.com/?p=939#comment-7134</guid>
		<description>Dr. Alveda C. King is the founder of King for America, Inc. which is a faith based organization. [32] Dr. Alveda C. King is the daughter of the late slain civil rights activist Rev. A. D. King.[32]
Dr. Alveda C. King stated the following to the Massachusetts General Assembly regarding the existence of ex-homosexuals is an argument that "gay rights" does not achieve civil rights status:
“	 Thirty-nine years ago, my great-uncle, Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., delivered to mindful citizens of America a prophetic dream which envisaged all of this great nation's people living in the full exercise of all rights granted to them by the U.S. Constitution. My forebear's dream was deeply rooted in the American dream wherein the Founders of our Union saw every lawful citizen standing in dignity outfitted by unalienable rights from God to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness free from the tyrannies of personal whim and ideology handed down by kings, dictators, political groups, and yes, some institutions of democratic government....
Yet, there is a larger body of science represented even by the above scientists that agrees that mature behavior patterns rely much more on social shaping and choices than genetic predisposition, such that these behaviors may be successfully modified by a variety of means. The food addict may eat responsibly, the alcoholic may drink responsibly or not at all, and the homosexual may live according to a wide range of choices as well. Thus, binge drinking, overeating, cocaine abuse and other behaviors do not have to be granted public latitude as a matter of right in this great nation. Certainly, these and other mutable behaviors may be practiced; they may be under constitutional protection in fact (under our privacy clauses), but they may not be granted civil rights or public protection.
Again, if behavior or other aspects of personhood may be altered, then those aspects fail to meet civil rights status. Homosexual practice clearly falls into this category. As my mother, Alveda C. King has said, "I have met many ex-homosexuals just as I have met many ex-husbands, ex-wives, ex-drug addicts and ex-lawyers. Yet I have never met an ex-Negro, ex-Caucasian or ex-Native American." The politics of preference does not jibe with civil rights legitimacy...[33]

&lt;a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Ex-Homosexuals" rel="nofollow"&gt;Source &lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt;here&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Ex-Homosexuals" rel="nofollow"&gt;.

&lt;em&gt;Kevin Bussey's last blog post..&lt;a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ConfessionsOfARecoveringPharisee/~3/285229995/' rel="nofollow"&gt;African American Woman suspended for claiming homosexuals are not “civil rights victims.”&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Alveda C. King is the founder of King for America, Inc. which is a faith based organization. [32] Dr. Alveda C. King is the daughter of the late slain civil rights activist Rev. A. D. King.[32]<br />
Dr. Alveda C. King stated the following to the Massachusetts General Assembly regarding the existence of ex-homosexuals is an argument that &#8220;gay rights&#8221; does not achieve civil rights status:<br />
“	 Thirty-nine years ago, my great-uncle, Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., delivered to mindful citizens of America a prophetic dream which envisaged all of this great nation&#8217;s people living in the full exercise of all rights granted to them by the U.S. Constitution. My forebear&#8217;s dream was deeply rooted in the American dream wherein the Founders of our Union saw every lawful citizen standing in dignity outfitted by unalienable rights from God to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness free from the tyrannies of personal whim and ideology handed down by kings, dictators, political groups, and yes, some institutions of democratic government&#8230;.<br />
Yet, there is a larger body of science represented even by the above scientists that agrees that mature behavior patterns rely much more on social shaping and choices than genetic predisposition, such that these behaviors may be successfully modified by a variety of means. The food addict may eat responsibly, the alcoholic may drink responsibly or not at all, and the homosexual may live according to a wide range of choices as well. Thus, binge drinking, overeating, cocaine abuse and other behaviors do not have to be granted public latitude as a matter of right in this great nation. Certainly, these and other mutable behaviors may be practiced; they may be under constitutional protection in fact (under our privacy clauses), but they may not be granted civil rights or public protection.<br />
Again, if behavior or other aspects of personhood may be altered, then those aspects fail to meet civil rights status. Homosexual practice clearly falls into this category. As my mother, Alveda C. King has said, &#8220;I have met many ex-homosexuals just as I have met many ex-husbands, ex-wives, ex-drug addicts and ex-lawyers. Yet I have never met an ex-Negro, ex-Caucasian or ex-Native American.&#8221; The politics of preference does not jibe with civil rights legitimacy&#8230;[33]</p>
<p><a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Ex-Homosexuals" rel="nofollow">Source </a><strong>here</strong><em><a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Ex-Homosexuals" rel="nofollow">.</p>
<p><em>Kevin Bussey&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ConfessionsOfARecoveringPharisee/~3/285229995/' rel="nofollow">African American Woman suspended for claiming homosexuals are not “civil rights victims.”</a></em></a></em></p>
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