Apr 10 2008
Does this help our witness?
[Seattle PI]
Alabama has all sorts of tourist trails - there’s one for civil rights, another for birds and yet another for old churches. The newest one was introduced Tuesday to promote the state’s wineries, but Baptists aren’t joining in the toast.
A trade association and a tourism group came up with the Alabama Wine Trail to lure visitors to the state’s eight wineries, which produce everything from fruity muscadine and peach wines to more traditional varieties such as merlot and chardonnay.
Tom Vizzini hopes the trail will increase traffic at his Vizzini Farms Winery, which produces as many as 3,000 cases a year. He located it on the outskirts of Birmingham after running up against church opposition in a more rural area.
“We put our wines up against any of them from California,” said Vizzini, whose grandfather was a vintner in Sicily.
But some say the wine can stay on the West Coast.
A Baptist leader in neighboring Chilton County said his group opposed plans for a winery there and doesn’t like the idea of luring tourists to his home turf or anywhere else in Alabama to imbibe.
“We are on record as being opposed to any kind of alcohol-related industry,” said the Rev. Robert Griffin, moderator of the Chilton Baptist Association and pastor of Highland Baptist Church in Clanton. “I would support visiting old, historic churches, but as far as visiting wineries…”
Read about it here.
[From me]
I don’t drink alcohol. All of the alcohol I’ve ever had can be put in a small shot glass. Most of it was at an Episcopal communion. I’ve never tasted beer because it smells bad and looks like –you know! My grandfather on my dad’s side of the family was an alcoholic so I never had a desire to drink. Plus seeing all of the University of Alabama frat parties while growing up turned me off to drinking.
That being said, do we as Christians want to be known for extra-Biblical stances? Didn’t Jesus turn water into wine? It wasn’t grape juice! Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine. He didn’t say drink Mt. Dew! I see no where in the Bible where it says drinking alcohol is a sin. It says don’t get drunk.
I don’t drink because I don’t want to be a stumbling block to others. I don’t think it is wise for me to drink. I don’t want to let anything control my actions. But I have many Godly friends and family members who feel free in God’s grace. This article was written in the Pacific NW where only about 4% of the people are Christians. If we truly believe the Bible is God’s Word then why do we add to it like the Pharisees? Is this really what we as believers want to be known for?
What do you think?
24 responses so far
This particular issue drives me nuts! I’ve used the Jesus turned water into wine argument with people for years. I understand completely that people choose not to drink for a variety of reasons; I personally don’t drink because I can’t stand the taste. But, my parents and sister enjoy a glass of wine with dinner every now and then. Does that make me a better Christian than they are? Absolutely not! Moderation is the key just like with anything else.
This article makes me embarrassed to be from Alabama. Of course, I get embarrassed about that quite often.
It’s pretty silly. I am an alcoholic. I won’t visit a winery. I don’t and won’t drink. But it just seems like some of us are more involved with trying to tell people what we’re against than WHO we are for.
I’d think about visiting the winery just to tick them off.
Tom Bryant’s last blog post..In the Middle of a New Book
I’m with you, Kevin. I very rarely consume any alcohol, and I have a lot of appreciation for much of what the Baptists do, but when they get on their extra-Biblical “no alcohol” bandwagon it makes me want to have a beer.
The Biblical model is simple: Don’t get drunk, don’t be a stumbling block to others, don’t drink if it is a problem for you and obey the laws. But otherwise you can drink.
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I don’t really think Baptists are concerned about “their witness”. I think they’re more concerned with justifying their pharisaical ways. This is one of them.
I wonder if any real serious study has been done as to what the effects of this sort of publicity, and the stand it points to, is. How effective it is in furthering the spread of the gospel. Along the same lines as the question as to whether “confrontational witnessing” does more harm among non-believers that it does, good.
Bob Cleveland’s last blog post..The Chickenwire Cages of Prejudice
I agree with all. We need to be defined by what we stand for… not against!
When are we going to focus on the New Command that Jesus gave in John 13:34-35?
Our best witness before a world that needs Jesus is to love one another. That command get’s very practical when you apply the litmus test of 1 Corinthians 13. When tempted to judge someone or some situation just stop and ask, “Am I patient, am I kind, do I have any self-seeking motives, am I boasting, proud or rude?”
Helps me every time!
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Hey, Bob, it hurts a little to be broadbrushed into being a Pharisee just because I’m a Baptist… I’ll also VOTE against liquor by the drink laws even though I’m not an activist about it. I eat in many establishments that serve alcohol even though I don’t drink it.
Alcohol destroys. Sure, it can be consumed in moderation, and I don’t personally have a problem with that, but you can be doggoned sure that my kids are not going to be allowed to drink. I hate alcohol because it destroys. I don’t claim a Biblical prohibition, and I don’t vote against it because of any Biblical position. I vote against it because it destroys. People die. People waste money trying to get out of DWI trouble. Kids are abused. Wives are beaten. Women hurt husbands. Older people who should know better provide alcohol for teenagers with little self control.
Alcohol destroys. Just because I believe that and thus vote against it, even though I’m a Baptist, doesn’t make me a Pharisee.
There’s a young man who I have know for years that has just started attending my church. He’s a beer salesman. He very obviously isn’t comfortable talking about that to church people. I regret that, because it doesn’t make him a bad person. He’s just doing his job. Will I ever confront him on it? Definitely not. It’s totally between him and God, and my job is to live love in front of him. However, if he ever asks me about it, I’m sure it will come out that I despise alcohol and what it does to millions of families. I will not tell him that in “high and mighty” fashion, nor will I intend to condemn. But I cannot condone something that so easily destroys.
Churches that stand against alcohol need to have the guts to admit that the Bible doesn’t condemn alcohol entirely, only drunkenness. But neither should we be required to accept or promote alcohol just to avoid being called Pharisees by those who feel so free as to use the product. If you feel it’s appropriate to use alcohol, that’s up to you. One of my best friends is a Methodist who really enjoys beer. I don’t hold it against him, but he also knows darn well that I don’t drink. Simple. He doesn’t call me a Pharisee.
Abortion isn’t specifically mentioned in the Bible, either, but I personally believe it’s pretty clear that God regards unborn babies as people. I don’t think it’s Pharisaical to have a position about it. We all can be called hypocrites about something.
I do, however, think there’s a better way to say “we don’t support alcohol” than is typically done.
I’ll have to side with the Chilton County Baptist leader who said that his group opposed plans for a winery. Have you ever tasted wine from Alabama?!
:^p
A3,
Hey Kev,
If it’s WHITE WINE, I’ll take the tour the next time I’m in the “heart of Dixie”!
Phil Hoover’s last blog post..How far does “Honor thy Father and Mother” go?
I agree that we put too much emphasis on non-essentials. I do not drink. Never have tasted it to be honest. I am not saying that to be high and mighty because I know that I have other issues that I must deal with. It is true that the church must be the conscience of our culture (and man are we messing that up!) but to be known for a stand on a winery in the county or state? How about being pro-active and start or support a 1/2way house for recovering alcoholics? Sort of like a crisis pregnancy center would be doing instead of holding out picket signs. Sort of like offering help or hospice instead of holding out “God hates fags” signs. What are we doing to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem?
Good post K.
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Kevin,
As you pointed out, their stance is extra-biblical. I’ve seen a number of recent posts from around the community that doucment our continuing effort to recreate God in our own comfortable (or uncomfortable) image. The essence of worship is the personal relationship with the Lord, not the style of music, Bible translation, stance on alcohol, young-earth/old-earth, or any of the thousand other things that take God from the center of our existence.
As a wiser man than I pointed out, I don’t think Jesus would recognize a lot of what we call religion. Or maybe He would, and start overturning tables…
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Here’s a similar debate I’ve had in my community.
Expansion of Liquor licenses. One problem we have is numerous bars (I’m in a college town) but there has been a cap on the number of establishments that can sell liquor. The mayor wants to provide more to some restaurants so they will open up in our town. Strangely enough, I agree with him–though some, even in my church are mad about it.
Here’s why–Personally, I am against alcohol. But not everyone shares my conviction–I do not believe it is appropriate to try and take a personal conviction and make it a mandate for everyone else. That becomes legalism.
In this situation, for restaurants to get the license, only a certain percentage of their sales can come from alcohol (I’m not sure, I’ve seen 25, 30, 35% in various places). So they won’t be serving as much alcohol as a bar, plus it will include food which will lower the amount one drinks and reduce the intoxicating power, so less drunkenness, public or driving.
In the future, it is my understanding that the policy will be to not renew the liquor licenses of many of the bars. The hope is that it will reduce public intoxication and the prevalence of binge drinking, and bad behavior, etc.
I think this is reasonable. Maybe not perfect, I’d love it if everyone would wake up to my conviction, but I can’t make them. What do you think?
Kelly,
Personally, I wish alcohol would go away. But if I truly believe the Bible is without error how can I add additional rules. That is what the Pharisees did. It becomes burdensome. It also becomes disillusioning when you were taught something was wrong only to find out that isn’t true.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Does this help our witness?
Assuming of course the future policy get enacted–of course.
Kevin,
I agree and my experience is similar–though I had more to drink in my college years than you did. The policy attempts to lessen the amount and impact of the alcohol that is sold. If you were faced with a local government trying to make this kind of decision, what would you do?
I think we need to be honest about the Bible says. If we want to oppose for public safety, that is good. But calling something a sin that isn’t is wrong.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Does this help our witness?
True–we shouldn’t call something sin that the Bible doesn’t. But when it does, we should be willing to stand on that. Still, we can try to have a positive impact in reasonable ways. I think this is one way. My hope in this situation is that the number of bars will be reduced. Pray that it does.
Well it just so happens that I live in the same town as Kelly and in fact I am a Student Minister in the town.
I personally do not have a conviction against drinking. I have had wine many times at communion and will continue to do so as the opportunities arrive. I have also been known to have a drink during a meal. Since I accepted Christ as my Savior I have never become drunk as I see this as sin. I totally understand those who have a personal conviction on not having a drink. I also respect those who say that they do not purchase alcohol because it gives money and support to an industry that they have issues with. My only comment to that would be to make sure that you are consistent with that stance. There are many stores and companies that we frequent that support causes that we would not support. In the end I realize that I have a personal conviction and that it is not one that I should try to impose on others.
As far as the specific case here. I think bringing in more restaurants would be of great benefit to the community. I also think that if it is possible to reduce the number of bars here then we should look to go that route. For me the reduction in the number of bars is born out of a concern for the students and not necessarily any personal conviction on alcohol. I know students wil still get drunk. It is simply a part of their culture. My role in all of this is to try and change their individual culture and in so doing change the overall culture. It is my job to point them towards to Almighty Creator of the Universe in the hopes that they begin walking the narrow path and maybe just maybe bring someone along with them.
So here is to hoping that my opposing view to Kelly does not get me fired or something like that.
That’s 2 blogs now! Should I institute a 3 strikes policy?
I realize Kevin, that I never actually answered your original thought–sorry to hijack the thread.
Yes, such moments can and do hurt our overall witness. Alcohol is an issue that many good and faithful Christians disagree–so it becomes a matter of conviction. It is always a greater risk to take a conviction and try to make it a mandate for others.
The minister has every right to express his displeasure and even oppose it. I pray it is done in a loving and respectful manner. I pray that the minister and those involved, even after stating their convictions will be known more by their love for Jesus than for being against alcohol.
Kelly,
Don’t worry about a hijack. I have a personal conviction about alcohol. I don’t drink and won’t because I don’t want to be a stumbling block to someone else. But I also don’t want to make someone stumble by saying something is a sin and then they study the Bible for themselves and find out what they have been taught was wrong.
Kevin Bussey’s last blog post..Does this help our witness?
I do agree with Kelly’s answer to the question!
back to baseball–you’re 1 ball and 2 strikes!
Kelly Reed’s last blog post..Sharing an Analogy
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