May 16 2007
If you can’t say anything nice…
I was taught as a young person if I couldn’t say anything nice, then don’t say anything at all. Yesterday, our nation and the church lost an icon, Dr. Jerry Falwell. I didn’t post anything on it because I’m not a newspaper and didn’t feel I had anything to add. But I was interested in reading about his passing because I respected his ministry. Now I didn’t agree with everything Dr. Falwell did but every Liberty graduate I have met has been top notch. I truly believe Dr. Falwell is up in heaven and he served God well.
But what bothered me was reading and watching CNN, FOX, and blogs about Dr. Falwell. I couldn’t believe reading and seeing all of the ugly things said about this man. Even on so-called Christian sites there were ugly comments made about Dr. Falwell. I don’t get it. The man is dead and people are jumping all over him. He has a family that is grieving and people are trashing him after he is gone. I’m not linking any of the stories because I don’t think it is worth seeing all of the ugliness.
Here in Charlotte we had a local television personality who died of cancer a few weeks back. She was well loved and had a new baby. One of the local newspaper reporters wrote a story about her including the fact that she became pregnant before she was married. Why? I didn’t need to know that about her. Why bring that up after she has passed away?
I’m not a fan of lot of religious and political personalities views. But I will never be glad when they pass away. I won’t trash people when their families are grieving. I don’t get it.
Maybe I’m naive but I believe we can talk theology, science, politics and sports and argue and fuss all we want about the issues. But in the end we should love and respect each other. I may disagree with many of you who read but I promise I respect and care about you. You may or may not believe in God . I don’t care about your race, education level or sexual orientation either. I value people. Why? Because God does! It may be an old saying, but if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.
What do you think?
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47 responses so far
Kevin,
As a LU grad and a current LTS student, I can’t agree with you more on yoru post. I don’t agree with Dr. Falwell on some areas of theology and on his past political involvement, nor do I agree with every stance that Dr. Caner of LTS takes, but as believers, we can agree on the sufficiency of Christ and salvation by faith in Him alone. The working out of our salvation and its impact (speaking here of 2nd and 3rd tier issues) is great. We should argue and try and figure out what God has revealed to us in His Word. But at the end of the day, we are brothers and sisters in Christ. I’m thankful that Dr. Falwell had the vision for impacting his generation with the gospel of Christ and believe that he was a faithful steward of God’s blessings. No matter his mistakes (and despite them), to God he was a favored son who has finally come home.
Blessings
Guy
Whoohoo! The WBC might just take up your invitation to be picketed by them!
They plan to picket his funeral, I guess because he decribed Fred as a “first class nut”, and you don’t do that with impunity to God’s appointed ambassador.
BTW Kevin, I haven’t posted the Illy’s yet. Have you read my instructions on how to handle it?
As soon as I can escape from this madhouse ( our firm) I’ll whip down to the Post Office, I promise. But NO Starbucks syrup, or half and half ( gag!) in it, OK???
To borrow from the campy “Mommie Dearest” -” No Starbucks–EVER!”
Well, I don’t think any one would believe that Rev. Falwell and I could have seen eye to eye on many things on this side of Paradise, but I do believe he is a Christian, and in the nearer Presence of God. This is not a time to hurt his family or community any more - they are grieving enough.
Follow the money. Scandal sells.
I toyed with the idea of posting, but was taking the stance you mentioned–I’m not a newspaper, and I didn’t have anything to add. Thanks for posting my views, Kevin. I’m not known for great support of Falwell’s views, but I’m not predisposed to beat his memory up. Condolences to his family and friends. May we all say at the end of our days, “I served the Lord.”
Good questions Kevin. The big takeaway for me was this: As Gospel people we have to keep very close watch on what we say. Our enemies will remember us for our gaffs - not our Gospel. Above reproach . . .
I agree Kevin. I’ve heard that Rev. Billy Grahm will not share about personal conversations and his personal thoughts about people until they have passed on. Maybe that’s what many have done. They hold in their thoughts and keep their inside information until the individual passes on. Then they let it all out. But, I agree that most of what we are hearing is negative and quite honestly, bad timing because so many are still grieiving. I didn’t walk hand in hand with Dr. Falwell but I truly believe he was a giant of the faith who impacted the world (literally) for Jesus. May his tribe increase!
Kevin: I was listening to Fox when the story broke and I wrote a post almost immediately calling for prayer on behalf of his family and church. But when I heard the time of his passing it was within 20 minutes, I deleted it because I felt it was too soon. I did not know if all his family and friends knew or not. I never reposted for the same reasons you have given. I am not a newspaper and I just couldn’t do it.
I saw the same programs and thought it was in very poor taste. Has the conscience and compassion gone out of America? Certainly out of the media.
We all have to remember that this is a fresh open wound and his family is grieving. Good post Kevin.
Trust me if you ever met Dr. Falwell you would like him. You may not always agree with him but he was genuinely a nice/funny/genuine guy. He was passionate about his beliefs. He was a great organizer and networker. At times he could be misguided. But he was not the ogre many painted him out to be. (As Al Sharpton said on Larry King…He really cared about people…you could not help but like him…even when you disagreed with him)
He was a man whose wife, children, and grandchildren adored him…and he…them….that speaks volumes in my mind.
He led LBU to do what few schools have been able to do…create men and women(in education, law, sports, ministry, the arts, medicine, politics) to become passionate about their faith and living it out in the marketplace.
The school will impact the world more than his politics ever could.
Rodney
Who on television has been attacking Falwell with unkind words?
Last night, I read a press statement from Soulforce. They were quite generous towards Falwell. Considering his 9/11 statement about gays and lesbians, I was impressed with Soulforce. Al Sharpton was on Hardball last night. He too was incredibly gracious - which was a surprise.
You can’t report the death of a man such as Falwell and not allude to the fact that he was, indeed, a polarizing and controversial figure. However, I’ve noticed what seems to be a disconnect between Falwell’s public persona and his private persona.
Tucker Carlson (a conservative who is no fan of RR politics) had interviewed Falwell at length throughout the years, once for a book. He said Falwell, rarely if ever, discussed politics in private and never used inflammatory language towards his opponents. In fact, he had a Tinky-Winky doll in his office. Which made me wonder, if Falwell took his own public words as seriously as we did. Clearly, there seems to have been a difference between Falwell-the-politician and Falwell-the-minister.
Very well put! I appreciate your honesty and open thoughts. I posted this comment on a blog yesterday and think it is interesting to think about:
We all are told to make a difference in this world. The unfortunate thing is that most of us donât make much of a difference. I cant help but think, whether you like Falwell or not, if you agree with his methods and ideology or not, he made a difference.
How many of us can say we have had an impact like he did on this spinning rock called earth?
Im not saying he was right or wrong, its just a thought.
BDW,
You tell me how this is constructive:
Bruce Prescott of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists, a group opposed to fundamentalism in the SBC, said Falwell certainly had an influence on American politics.
Story here.
I agree with the first sentence. And find the rest to be entirely unnecessary (to put it mildly). Do know that us former-Southern Baptists do not see eye to eye on everything. I’d be glad to share multiple examples of such cases via e-mail (aaron_weaver@baylor.edu) with anyone.
And as you said, definitely not constructive. However, I’m very comfortable with what Parham said after Prescott’s quote.
You know how the media often goes to one extreme or the other for that punchy quote? Well, this is an example of that. Everyone does it. But, I wish that wasn’t the case.
DBW,
What is sad is that Larry Flynt of all people had nice things to say about Dr. Falwell but believers attack him after he has passed. I guess they will know we are Christians by our love.
Aaron, you obviously did not watch CNN or Fox news channel. I agree with Kevin. This is not the time to say anything but to express condolences. The family reads and hears this stuff and for what reason? Ratings, readers. We need to show compassion and good ole common decency, it shouldn’t be that hard to do even if one has to fake it.
Well, I honestly only watch FNC for O’Reilly.
Though a Georgia-boy, I rarely watch CNN.
I watch MSNBC.
Between Tucker, Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, and Al Sharpton - the folks at MSNBC were quite gracious to the Reverend.
Sentences I never thought I’d say: Wow, that was really classy of Larry Flynt. Two thumbs up for Larry.
I watched FOX News yesterday and didn’t hear a single negative thing said about Reverend Falwell, but I have seen lots of hateful things said on other websites. So I agree, Kevin, that’s it’s tasteless to say nasty things when someone has just passed away.
That said, Falwell was opinionated, and he certainly didn’t seem to follow the rule about not saying anything if you can’t say anything nice to those he opposed. His death was bound to bring out strong opinions from every direction. Like it or not, Falwell didn’t always show respect to those with whom he disagreed (at least in the public arena), so it’s hardly surprising that those people would react strongly to his death, and that they would show little regard for his family and friends who are mourning his passing.
Mr. Bussey,
You said…
“Maybe Iâm naive but I believe we can talk theology, science, politics and sports and argue and fuss all we want about the issues. But in the end we should love and respect each other. I may disagree with many of you who read but I promise I respect and care about you. You may or may not believe in God . I donât care about your race, education level or sexual orientation either. I value people. Why? Because God does! It may be an old saying, but if you canât say anything nice, donât say anything at all.
What do you think?”
I think you should give the same advice to your friend Mr. Cole about Paige Patterson and SWBTS.
In Love,
UD
UD,
I don’t talk about SBC politics anymore. You will have to take that up with them.
Thanks for the response. I hope I did not offend - I only mentioned that because I noticed that you had Mr. Cole on your blog list and from other posts I’ve read in blogsphere it appears that you guys run in the same camp and I’ve been increasingly discouraged by Mr. Cole’s overly malignant comments about Paige Patterson and the school. Though I am not against having a healthy concern and protest against apparent mismanagement - there are somethings that are uncalled for.
After just having read his blog and posting more concerns - I just thought yours was very ironic. If you are his friend - I would encourage you to encourage him with your post.
Thanks for your time.
UD,
You didn’t offend. I just don’t talk about that stuff anymore. I like Ben and Wade and I think you should write them.
It seems that the mainstream media operate under a somewhat different motto:
“If you can’t say something (unkind, controversial, mean-spirited, nasty, bad, revealing, negative, etc … pick one) about someone, then it’s time to move on to someone else.”
I think it’s much easier to talk about being nice and having compassion for Falwell’s family if you were never on the other end of his attacks. He garnered a great deal of power in his time, and he used it to attack and hurt people. The man said many horrible hateful things in his time, doing more to create division than to sew unity. I would lay the blame for any negativity that is coming out towards him now directly at his own feet.
Holmes,
I’m sorry for whatever hurt you have felt. I didn’t agree with all of his tactics. But I would not be happy over anyone’s death.
I hope you come back & join in some more discussions.
According to Rev Falwell, I’m a miserable failure of a human being.
He also thought that Billy Graham was “a servant of Satan.”
Ya gotta love someone like that!
I wonder how respectful Falwell would have been upon the passing of his political opposite. Did he never use a prominent person’s death as a platform for a fire and brimstone sermon? He certainly had no problem with using the deaths of thousands of non-famous people, hard to see the difference. Can you respectfully invoke God’s wrath, respectfully damn someone to hell?
I’m not glad the man’s dead, I’m just glad he can’t poison our society anymore. I am fairly indifferent to his death.
Francoise and Geekwad,
Thanks for sharing how you feel. I hate you feel that way but it helps me see how my words need to be more Christlike. I pray that my words won’t hurt you or anyone else. Seriously thanks for sharing.
Jerry Falwell has been an American Icon for at least 40 years.
I did not agree with many things that he did or said, and particularly not his “canonizing” of Rush Limbaugh (in my opinion, nothing but an overpaid blow hard) back in the 1990s.
However, when it came to good expositional preaching, he was extraordinary. I remember listening to his daily radio program when I was a teenager, and how he preached and taught through the Psalms…it was wonderful.
He is now rejoicing in the presence of the Christ whom he loved so dearly and whom he preached so clearly.
One of the influential pastors who mentored me in the ministry would have said to follow Gamaliel’s advice in Acts regarding those parts of the Kingdom of God that are controversial and divisive, as Falwell’s ministry certainly was. Gamaliel advised the Sanhedrin, in Acts 5, to leave Jesus’ disciples alone.
…For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourself fighting against God.”
Any evaluation I would come up with regarding Falwell’s preaching, would be based on my own personal preferences. There are things about the independent, fundamental Baptist culture that I do not find appealing or useful in my own spiritual pursuits, obviously, since I’m not an independent, fundamental Baptist. None of his earthly achievements served to get him into heaven any more than any of his earthly mistakes served to keep him out; he passed through those pearly gates because he was redeemed by the blood of Christ, and clothed himself with Christ’s righteousness.
Among the few Liberty graduates I’ve encountered here, there are both political and theological liberals who have more or less weighed what they learned at Liberty and then made their own decisions. I think that speaks better of the institution, and it’s founder, than if they were all ultra right wing conservatives and independent, fundamental Baptists.
I’m glad to hear there was more to Falwall than the one-dimensional caricature that filtered to me through the news. I think it can be said that he lived the life he wanted and had an impact on everything around him. I can respect that on a personal level. When I try hard.
I’m with Geekwad . . .
Kevin, why are you praying that your words hurt me and Geekwad? I don’t get it.
Why is it wrong to discuss someone after they’ve died? If he’s in Heaven, as most seem to think, then mere earthly words can’t affect him, or his status in the eyes of God.
We discuss the crimes of Hitler and Stalin, and that isn’t considered tasteless, so why should a religious bigot be exempt from post-mortem criticism?
He supported apartheid in South Africa, and said a lot of very objectionable things. That was his right in the secular society which he wished to see turned into a theocracy. God forbid that we ever live in a theocracy!
He preached the word of the Lord and made himself very rich into the bargain. ‘Nuff said.
oops Francoise,
That was suppose to say “won’t” hurt you.
Oh, good, ‘cos I was shaking in my boots with sheer, paralysing TERROR
No doubt, Geekwad was likewise trembling and gnawing his fingernails.
While I generally agree that one should not speak ill of the dead, I also don’t think that placing them on a pedestal is a good idea either. It doesn’t matter what rank they had in society. We all have flaws. It’s part of the human condition that not even the Bible disputes.
Rev. Falwell may have had many strong leadership qualities that his congregations were able to clearly see. However, his public persona - while subject to some media spin - didn’t show the clearest of visions. His comments about Pagans, lesbians, et al as being the reason behind the 9/11 attack demonstrated that. His later retraction of that only confirmed the obvious inaccuracy, or should I say, unsubstantiability of that comment. The motives of the Moral Majority didn’t appear to be completely free of flaws either. Religion’s role in government should be to internal inspire people to do the right thing rather than be externally applied by some to others. The whole reason the 13 colonies separated from English rule was because we didn’t agree with the government blend of secular law and the Anglican church. The Moral Majority seemed to have their own designs on blending into a form of government which could give them something the church lost long ago: power.
Ultimately, I think that quest for power has caused some to interject themselves into the overall structure. We have been conditioned by some faiths that you have to speak with God through their alleged servants, when the reality might actually be that the Divine within each of us can provide clear direction if we looked inward and followed that light. After all, as we were made by the Divine; it wouldn’t be a stretch to believe that some of that Divine essense is within all of us.
I don’t see how anyone who supports apartheid and segregation can be “godly”, unless, of course, God feels that way about coloured folks, too.
Blaming people like me for 9/11 is just too bizarre for words. No, I’m not gay, but I guess he would have classified me as a pagan. Yecch! If Heaven is full of people like him, I wouldn’t want to spend eternity with bigots and racists.
Francoise,
I like Falwell because he said some really stupid stuff…. and then it may take a few years, realizing what he said, repented.
Peter denied Christ, David mudered and many ‘attrocities’ occured as recorded in the bible at the hands of sinful men.. what set David apart from his predecessor was he repented.
No Falwell wasn’t perfect. He’d been the first to state he was far from it. However he was regenerate as evidenced by his behavior and retractions over the years.
What do you think of when you think of heaven: A giant kegger with all your friends? Admitingly Heaven is not wanted by everyone. The bible says we will be worshipping in heaven… If you do not want to do that here, why would you want to there? We have a choice.
In Christ
Andrew \o/
Titus 2:13
Hi Dozer- did you get my private email about your sad news? You can email me back, if you wish.
Anyway, there’s a rumour that God will be putting in a personal appearance at Falwell’s funeral. can anone verify this?
What do I think of when I think of Heaven? Well, actually, I don’t. But if pressed, I’d say that I have an image of being bored to death for endless aeons, stoking up God’s ego and telling him how wonderful he is, 24/24. Twanging harps and floating around the clouds with chubby pink cherubs is not my idea of a good time. No, thanks.
oooooo I can…
When two or more are gathered in My name, there I am.
Matthew 18:20
Yes I did Francoise and I have been trying to find time to write. I did something Friday that will give me a little mo free time. After many, many years working for Tyson Foods….I quit my job!!!
In two weeks I am going to work for an Architect who builds churches all across the Southern U.S. The bet thing…I had been driving 80 miles 1 way to work….now i can walk 1/4 mile and be at work!
wow seems we’re actually online at the same time…
I don’t expect any of us to be plinking a harp all day…. I hope there is a piano and guitar and bass I can play occasionally.
I have got to go for now… Check out what has been actually said about heaven in the bible. It does not coincide with pop culture perceptions.
In Christ
Andrew \o/
Titus 2:13
I know that- I was being facetious.
Frankly, I ‘ve never been able to make any sense of the Bible’s idea of an afterlife, or lack thereof. There’s a piece in the OT which states that when a person dies, all their thoughts die with them, which seems to indicate no afterlife at all, which is probably the most sensible idea.
That’s brilliant news about now being able to walk 1/4 mile to work- whee! What a stress-reliever!!! I have it even better- I work at home. No commuting–Yayyyy!!!!
I am not sure I know what you are talking about. I have never heard of the concept that all of our thoughts perish when we die.
I don’t understand everything about all of the concepts presented in the bible. Yet what I do see is on the great day of the Lord, we will know as we are known. We will not remember sadness and loss. There will be a great gulf fixed between the righteous and unrighteous that cannot be crossed. We will know our friends and family and it will be a super-physical existence. Jesus after his resurection walked, and communicated with, even ate with his disciples, and Thomas put his hand in His side so our bodies may well bear the scars of this life just as Jesus’ body apparently did.
I think it’s in Ecclesiastes, but will look it up if you’re interested.
Hi Dozer- It’s in Eccl 9:3-10 The dead do not know anything. They no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.
And Ps 146: 3-6 states: “His spirit departs, he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.”
Sound eminently sane and sensible to me!
Actually, I think it’ll be far more interesting to see what happens when Fred Phelps passes on. Will his funeral be a private one, or will it be a public affair? Will it be picketed by those whom Fred has hurt over the years? H’mmm, the American people have generally behaved with commendable restraint towards the WBC - maybe they’ll be big enough NOT to do unto Fred what he did to them?
It promises to be quite instructive.