May 12 2007
New Church Outreach–This will bring ‘em in!
[From WRAL]
Words like “bomb” and “die” draw attention to the small sign in front of Good News Independent Baptist Church.
Rev. Gary Murrell put up the sign, which on one side claims the message of Islam is “submit, convert or die.”
The other side reads: “When is the last time you heard of a Jew or Christian with a bomb strapped to their body?”
Read about it here.
[From me]
Nothing like being “salt and light.”
What do you think?
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27 responses so far
You’re right–this is nothing like being salt and light.
Ugh. “They’ll know we are Christians by our love.”
(The snide part of me wants to point out that we had a guy (who I’m sure claims to be a Christian) attempt to blow up an abortion clinic in Austin a couple of weeks ago.)
TexasinAfrica, I was thinking the exact thing. We do have people use bombs all the time just for the things we seem to think it more righteous.
Words and some actions are like bombs. Don’t people get that?
I can’t imagine an Islamic person being interested at all in the Jesus these guys are hawking.
you really want to reach some one, then live in love to all, those as many as want to will seek the source of that love. Jesus.
“The difference between Allah, who demands obedience, and God, who gives love, is stark. To some Muslims, Allah demands the sacrifice of their sons. To Christians, God gave His Son as a sacrifice for us. Thatâs a world of difference.”—James A. Davids
(Source:http://oldfordroad.wordpress.com/2007/03/25/why-are-there-no-christian-suicide-bombers/)
Why isn’t it obvious to all of us that Christianity and Islam are extremely different? Any so called “Christian” who employs retaliatory violence is clearly outside Biblical standards of conduct and the teachings of Christ. Can anyone say with certainty that a jihadist suicide bomber is acting outside the teachings of Mohammed? Probably not. Anyone who says otherwise is deceived.
Jay, please do not take this as an attack on you, I do not mean it to be what so ever.
Of course Islam and true Christianity is different, as followers of Jesus should be different from those who follow Taoism, Animism, Hinduism, etc. I don’t know that going down a laundry list of differences ever wins a heart to Jesus. I do, however believe that sacrificial love in the face of evil does, quite often.
The point is, no matter what type of person we get involved with, Jesus told us to reach out to them in love. No one is saying to not be clear about doctrinal differences, but they pale in response to the Gospel work that needs to be done with human love and service.
First, because I am a foster parent I can’t leave my real name but you can get it from my e-mail address.
Second, I agree with the salt and light thing. It gets people attention but it detracts from the real message of love and hope. Now sometimes Jesus himself was not all sugar and spice, but it was not usually at the expense or ridicule of others. When He condemned He tried to still save and that can not be done thru embarrassment.
I guess my biggest concern is that ANY church that teaches the truth will always offend someone else. Jesus offended many people and was sought out to be killed more than once. While the church’s sign might be untactful, I don’t believe the church’s message is factually incorrect nor necessarily wrong—they’ve just committed the unpardonable sin (in the eyes of our politically correct world) of claiming that Jesus is the way to salvation! What “discrimination!” What “bigotry!” (I guess it’s really only Christians who are tasked with being “tolerant” in our “PC” culture.)
And while we’re on the subject, I’d be interested in learning more on how to “love” a Muslim enough to tell them that Jesus Christ is the only Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no one may enter Heaven absent faith in Jesus Christ for salvation—without offending any believers of Islam?
Can someone explain to this Hell-bound heathen the allusion to salt and light?
Sure thing: salt preserves and heals; light illuminates darkness and exposes everything there for what it truly is.
watch out Francoise, next thing you’ll want to know is our secret handshake and see the decoder rings for our christian language.
It’s from Matthew 5:13-16, where Jesus tells us to be salt and light in the world.
13″You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14″You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
It means that our lives and good works ought to bring people to the Lord Jesus rather than repel them. These billboards are good examples of what Jesus did NOT mean.
First of all, Jay, I am always clear with people who and what I am - a sinner saved by Grace. I see no reason to not be clear about my faith in the salvation I know through Jesus. I have many friends of all sorts of walks of life who know exactly what I am, and who occasionally ask me about my spiritual walk, others are less interested. I love them either way.
There are many ways to show God’s love to a Muslim. Find your local Islamic group, and see if there is an interfaith group u can attend so you can meet some guys to befriend (unless you already know some).
Then be their genuine friend, and show them the love of Christ you would show to any one. The rest is up to the Spirit to move in their hearts.
Jesus found a way to be both sinless and a fun guy to be around.
not an easy combo, I think He was very self assured and confident.
Thanks, Jay and Tom.
Oh, I don’t know about that billboard. If you had the very limited view that Islam ONLY dealt with suicide bombers, this message might appeal
Personally, I have yet to meet any Christian whose life has made me want to convert.
Oh, yes, do tell about the secret handshakes and decoder rings.
As a matter of fact, all too often you believers DO speak a foreign language!
If you want to know what I mean, go to Youtube and search for “Water of Life” ministeries, and that’ll explain one of the reasons people like me would never, ever want to go to a church LOL. The only reason I could ever sit through this is as a surefure cure for insomnia.
Jay, just saw you comments about Muslims and Jesus. The Koran specifically states that the unpardonable sin is claiming that God has partners. No Muslim ( or Jew, for that matter) can believe that God is human or is divisible.
Muslims believe in Jesus’s virgin birth, and that he was the penultimate prophet. They don’t believe that he was crucified, and are appalled that Christians so “disrespect” him that they believe that God allowed him to be butchered.
MIT’s suggestion is a good one. Most mosques have open days and you’ll find the people eager to chat. They take pride in pointing out that no images are allowed inside a place of worship, and in their faith’s encouraging of education.
I have many Muslim freinds and clients, and have never had the slightest problem with any member of their religion. I know some of them are praying for me to revert to Islam :-D. It doesn’t bother me.
The sign’s right: I can’t really say I’ve heard of a Christian or Jew strapping a bomb to him or herself. They don’t have to, they’re rich enough to have the nations they run doing the bombing for them.
That being said, I do not believe that the violent actions of the fanatic branch of any religion should be used to judge the religion on the whole. It’s not Islam’s fault that extremists kill people in Allah’s name, just like it is not Christianity’s fault that the KKK kills people in Christ’s name.
You know, one thing I was thinking about was when Jesus met the Samaritan woman at the well. The very first thing she exepected was a lecture on how they worshiped incorrectly. Jesus went a third way and engaged HER, on her level, and before the visit was over had won over a large portion of the village.
I wonder how the visit would have gone if He had simply said a laundry list of how wrong the Samaritans were? I don’t think He compromised His beliefs any, does anyone else think so?
Jeremiah 31:3
…I have drawn you with lovingkindness.
1 Peter 2:17
Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
I sense that we are all talking past each other a bit. I think we’re all sincere, but we likely won’t agree 100%.
Jesus is much more than a one-dimensional loving person. He is fully man, and yet fully God; He is 100% loving, and yet 100% holy. He expressed tremedous love and understanding at times and righteous anger and rebuke other times. The Holy Spirit led Him as we also are to be led by the Holy Spirit. We can tell others the good news of Jesus Christ as the way to salvation and tell of the glory of eternity in Heaven with the Lord, but we must also warn those who continue to reject God that they face eternal damnation and hell in the next life if they wish to merit heaven without the blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sin. Too many mainstream Chrisitan denominations have forgotten Christ’s message to repent. The most unloving thing in this world is loving people straight to hell b/c Christians always only told them that “God loved them.” Well, that’s not good enough. That’s not the full Gospel! And that alone doesn’t save anyone! Jesus said in John chapter three, “Ye must be born again.” I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we can come up with 100 million different ways to share the gospel and some people will ALWAYS reject it and some people will ALWAYS be offended to the point of making martyrs of the messengers of the Gospel.
I recognize that the sign above is untactful and not very loving. It gets peopIe talking and it gets people thinking though. (If you hadn’t noticed.) But I wouldn’t put it up that way.
My point is this: Put whatever Gospel message that you choose on that sign and you will inevitably be labeled for your blatant discrimination and bigotry in the eyes of someone else. But that’s just how the world tries to shame us into hiding our Light and our Truth. Or I guess we could just put up “God loves you.” It’s non-offensive. It’s non-confrontational. It’s partly non-disclosure. And it’s politically correct b/c “God” could very well be whatever god you or I choose.
Francoise,
For someone who became a believer because he saw the real deal in someone, I am sorry that we haven’t been that person in lots of people’s lives, including yours.
I’d send you the decoder but I am using it to understand the people talking in the videos you mentioned.
Hi Tom! I think you’d need an intensive course in Venusian to understand that bloke, AND intensive therapy after surviving one of his ordeals.
Jay, if Jesus was so loving, why did he tell believers that they had to HATE their own families to prove that they were worthy of him? Talk about egocentric! And there’s verses where he specifically states that he’s come to set the world on fire, and how he wishes it were already ablaze, and that his purpose was to set people at odds with one another. Doesn’t sound too loving to me, but then, I don’t have the HOly Ghost, so these things would never make sense to me
OK, all of these are really good comments, but the first thing that jumped out at me is that the guy that put up the sign can’t even spell “Christian” correctly. What exactly is a “Christain” anyway?
Randall, rguilliams and some chick,
Thanks for stopping by.
All the other regulars good stuff.
Francoise,
I believe Jesus was emphasizing the necessity of turning away from the relationships and other things that sometimes hold us back from faith in Jesus Christ. He’s not advocating violence between family members. Rather, He’s stressing that salvation and eternal life in Christ must not be lost simply because the people in our lives don’t believe also. I love my parents, siblings, wife and children to death, but what a tragedy if I ever let them choke out my faith in Jesus Christ or hold me back from everlasting life.
Life is short. And life is about the right priorities. I love this quote from Jim Elliot who was savagely killed by the very people whom he had worked to share the Gospel: “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” God loves us enough to let us know that whatever is holding us back from faith in Jesus Christ—that thing is just not worth it.
rguilliams,
LOL! I read it so fast that I hadn’t noticed. I hate it when I misspell stuff too.
I can’t imagine anyone wanting to step foot in a congregation that had a message like that posted.
Also, the fundamentalist Islamic is the “scary” one. It’s hard to recognize a secular Muslim. Fundamentalist in anything is almost always a scary thing. These people are extreme. Example: the Christian who bombs abortion clinics. Yes, abortion is bad, but the answer is bombing and possibly killing to stop the killing? HUH? I hope you can understand where I’m trying to go with this one.
Hi, Jay- Jesus specifically said that he had come to set people at variance with one another. Children against parents, in-laws against in-laws, and so on.
He used the word hate. He commanded believers to hate their families in order to prove their devotion to him, which is the mark of a despot. Hatred leads to violence and more hatred. It’s crazy!
Check out the Christian fruitcake who planned a bombing at “Rev” Falwell’s send -off!!