Apr 20 2007
When does free speech go too far?
The highly misguided people from Westboro Baptist Church are at in again. Now in the midst of the worst school shooting our our nations history the folks at Westboro are planning to protest the funerals of the victims.
Read about it here.
When is does this go too far? Come on those students did nothing to deserve what happened to them. Now in the midst of this tragedy the Phelps gang is going to inflict more pain.  If you have never watched my interview with Shirley Phelps-Roper you can watch it here.
To the Phelps family if you are looking for a place to protest I invite you to come to Charlotte. I would love to share with you the “TRUE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST.”
When does free speech go too far?
27 responses so far
Our government does restrict free speech, but these restrictions are generally only imposed in cases where free speech might incite others to violence, casue a danger to public safety (that’s why you can’t yell “fire” as a false alarm in a movie theater), cause direct financial harm (as in libel and slander cases), or expose children to indecent or obscene material (things that are obscene are things that lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value). The Phelps’ actions are despicable, but they’re well within the bounds of the way free speech rights have traditionally been interpreted by the courts.
I do think there’s a danger to compromising free speech, mainly because it is such a slippery slope in deciding what does and doesn’t constitute hate speech. That said, it seems like a good compromise for communities to be able to place restrictions on the distance protesters have to maintain from private ceremonies (like a burial) involving private citizens (that is, people who aren’t public figures). I also appreciate the Patriot Freedom Riders for their work to counteract WBC’s protests and to shield families from their protests.
The free speech thing is tough - they won’t limit that. But I’m constantly shocked at what some people will say in the name of Christ. Picketing a funeral is simply hateful - and sad.
Government censorship is dangerous. As stated above, there are quite a few categories of unprotected speech (Fighting Words, Obscenity, Child Porn, etc.)
Though, I wouldn’t blame the city if they violated WBC’s rights in some capacity to keep them away from the funerals. I do wonder if the legislature or perhaps the Governor could pass a bill/executive order that forbids the picketing of funerals. It may be ruled unconstitutional later - but that’s down the road…
However, I wish the media would stop granting interviews to these nuts so that they might, just might, go away.
Absolutely disgusting. A couple of months ago the Phelps gang were here in Kentucky to protest at a funeral after a horrible house fire killed ten people. They protested because one - or maybe a couple - of the victims were lesbians.
Sure, there are things that the government can do, but what is the appropriate response of the true Christian Church to the Phelps protests.
Can we agree that the Westboro people can call themselves Christians, but they are not Jesus-followers?
Hi,
New to your blog. Good stuff here.
I live about 30 minutes from Ft. Hood and let me tell you, these folks are NOT popular around here. That’s putting it mildly. I agree with Big Daddy Weave, quit putting cameras in front of these doomers. I doubt they’ll actually go away, but at lease it would minimize their impact.
Another step to take is not visiting their website - they make money off of every hit.
I visited their website once and had to log off because my blood pressure was going through the roof. I agree, those people may call themselves Christians, but they are not Christ-followers.
1. It is true that obscenity is not “free speech” but most people are not bold enough to enforce obscenity laws in their communities.
2. I exercise my “right to free speech” by praying fervently for the WBC folk to find the love of Jesus and not just the Law. I should also keep praying for Rosie too! I’m free to pray for those who misrepresent Christ as well as those who are supposedly against christianity. CBB
I never can understand Americans!! You’re quite OK with having Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech for yourselves, ( which we don’t!) but take exception when someone says something which doesn’t accord with your views. Uh??? It doesn’t make sense.
You really should try to comprehend how Christianity has changed over the centuries. Back in history, it was quite OK - mandatory, in fact! - to believe that “God” regularly and frequently punished human beings by sending floods, famines, droughts, fires, plagues, and mass deaths of all types, as signs of his great displeasure. The Phelps people are no different. So what? They’re entitled to their views, same as you. Im not saying that I think their picketing is something that would attract me or most folk to Christianity, but they’re trying to get a message across, and this is the way they know it will hit the headlines.
Nowadays, with life in the West being far more safe, secure and prosperous, Christians tend to attrribute good fortune as a blessing from God, but when things turn nasty, God is absolved of any complicity or culpability, and you either blame Satan, human evil/incompetence, or random chance.
But the Phelps family sees EVERYTHING that happens as an expression of the Divine Will, and that’s entirely consistent with the Bible. Their self-appointed task is to INTERPRET those disasters, whether man-made, or natural, and to apportion blame as they see fit, guided, of course, by the Holy Spirit. Pastor Ake Green preaches a sermon against homosexuality in Sweden and is imprisoned. Later on, a tsunami kills half a million people, including many Swedes. Bingo! God was angry at the jailing of His servant, and demonstrated his wrath by killing Swedish nationals. He also killed a lot of other nationalities in the process, but hey! He’s God, and he can do his sovereign will as he pleases! Who cares if he got his geography all wrong, and slammed into Asia instead of Sweden!?
See the WBC as it is- a living example of what many, ( maybe most), Christians believed centuries ago. God, to them, is real and vengeful. He is the raging mad ( and “mad” is the operative word) god of the Old Testament. He isn’t aloof or indifferent- oh, no. He takes an intense, jealous and suspicious interest in human doings 24/24, and they believe that to be literally true.
Besides that, I ask you ( again!) to Google “Addicted to Hate” and read it thoroughly before you make up your minds about how you feel towards them. I grew up in a similar environment, tyrannised by a religious nutcase who used extreme violence to subjugate and bully his wife and children.
I know what Shirley Phelps and her siblings had to endure - years of incessant mental torment and physical deprivations and cruelty. I empathise with them. In fact, I like them. Some escaped the horrors of the Topeka compound, as I escaped, but most did not. Be merciful to them, and be thankful that your lives were different. Please, see them as very damaged, well-meaning creatures in need of love and kindness. Like Cho, they see the outside world as being inimically hostile towards them, and react accordingly. Given their past history, that’s not surprising.
They’re not advocating the committing of any crime against people or property, and the violence which occurs at their picketing is directed against them. They see this as confirmation that they’re on the right track, and are blessed by God. If that makes them happy, so be it.
It’s just been released- WBC has cancelled its picketing of the students’ funerals in exchange for 3 hours’ radio time on the Mike Gallagher show.
What happened to my previous post????
The Westboro Baptist Phelps clan is entitled to free speech, and by showing up in such places at such times, they make themselves look bad. They’re entitled to that.
They do not represent Biblical Christianity.
I wonder what God thinks of many of the things we do in His name. It comes down, not to free speech, but to representation. The question then becomes, do they represent God? Do I? Does my church or place of worship? I think there are many who will be surprised when we finally hear the real answer.
I agree with Francois. You can limit the a$$e$ from Westboro, just because we don’t like what they say, do, or believe.
There is another element to free speech that many people, especially decent people, overlook. If I have failed to overlook it, well, maybe that says more about me :>)
WBC has the right to say what they want to, within obvious limits. And I have the right to react to that, by say, slashing their tires. Or not selling them gasoline or groceries. I have the right to accidently spill their drinks on them when they sit in my restaurant.
When the founding fathers were hashing out this whole issue of free speech, they were up against a brick wall. People did not think it would work. But they believed that people had a curious way of policing themselves when it comes to freedoms. For example, let a pretty young woman walk into a bar alone, and see how many available men approach her and try to talk to her. Sometimes their advances are gentlemanly and gracious, and other times they are not. But let her walk into a place with her husband or boyfriend at her side, and most people will not approach her. Some out of respect for the relationship she appears to be in. Others out of fear that her husband will punch them in the nose if they tried. For those too stupid to do the right thing, a punch in the nose may be just what they need.
I’m not advocating violence or abberant behavior, I am saying that there is rarely a time when free speech goes too far. In the same way that WBC has the right to say what they like, we have the right to react how we want.
Clarification: You CAN’T limit the a$$e$ from Westboro…
Sorry.
this heats me up to no end, man. it reminds me of that interview you did with them last year. so blind. so angry. so mean-spirited.
This is why when I street witness, everyone thinks that this is what Christianity is. Why do they see this and not those that work tirelessly for them through prayers and petitions?
Maybe, inwardtruth, because prayers are usually private conversations. How are we supposed to know who’s praying for us, and where and when? And what petitions do you make? This is new to me.
Adam, you’d probably be mean and angry, too, if you’d been subjected to years of interminable physical and mental torture, like the Phelps kids were. Read “Addicted to Hate”, and then reflect on how you would have reacted in those circumstances.
Jasonk, what are “a$$e$”? Another Americanism? Please translate.
Sorry Francoise. It is a way of referring to them as a derogatory part of the human anatomy, without getting blocked by Kevin’s filter :>)
Oh, I see. What we in Australia call donkeys, yes?
Yes indeed. :>)
Gentle snigger!
I would say it went too far the first time they ever protested a funeral. It makes me sad that someone would see this as a representation of Christ.
Tylor, believe it or not, they’re convinced that Jesus would picket funerals if he were alive and living in USA in these times.
It is true that there was a time (or many times) where it was the popular thought to think of every disaster as divine judgement. I’m not completely sure that was ever a Biblical based doctrine though.
Popular thought changes frequently (post-modern thought being a popluar example) but that doesn’t, however, make it Biblical (at least not when the Bible is taken as a whole).
Anyway, I’ve now managed to lose my train of thought. I guess it was just the “mandatory, in fact!” that left me with questions. Granted the thought of those days was as you say but could you tell me the basis of the “mandatory” belief part?
OK, look back to when the RCC ruled the roost, and the Pope and his cronies were in charge of interpreting the Bible. If you’re familiar with the OT, you’ll know how often “God” went on the rampage against Israel et al. The Bible, it was believed, was inerrant. If it implied that God was harsh and vindictive, then you had no right to dispute that claim. “The Bible said it, therefore I believe it” .
Examine European history and note the outbreaks of religious fervour which followed every plague and other disaster. They were always seen as God’s wrath, and to argue against the sacerdotal class was very, very dangerous- heresy, for which the penalty could be and often was death. The RCC invented thoughtcrime long before Orwell was born!
True, the Old Testament does depict God as “lighting a fire under the butt” of Israel when they got off course (which happened frequently) and I believe He still does that when He deems fit today for his Church. However, it cannot be said that this is God’s “rule of thumb” is such cases because sometimes He gave people a kick in the butt and other times He was more patient, whatever He deemed best in that case.
Furthermore, when trying to use the Old Testament as justification for such a disaster=judgment doctrine we must deal with the entire book of Job which entirely refutes said doctrine.
It’s well know that the Roman Catholic Church way back when was suffering from rampant corruption among its leaders and they did tremendous harm. There were, however, those true to the Word of God and I would count them as the true Church.
I guess that is what I am concerned with here. Not so much what some believe or what many used to believe but what is actually true.
Thanks for for your comments Francoise and everyone else. I love it when we can get good discussions going here.
God bless.
Ha ha ha, You were going to expose Shirley’s lack of Christian love and you stood there like the wimpy pup you are while the Servant Of God cleaned you hyprocritic clock. Glory to God!!!