Mar 28 2007
Finishing Well?
The recent events of pastors and spiritual leaders falling in public has been very disillusioning for me. After a while you wonder if anyone can truly live a life that honors God. But I’m grateful to know men and woman who have “Finished Well.” In some ways it is comforting to know that God forgives us of every sin. Look at King David and the Apostle Paul they were both murders and one was an adulterer. Yet God used them to do mighty things in the Kingdom of God.
But what happened to “Finishing Well?” I realize that we are not to lift up any person and we are to look to Christ. Yet it helps to have examples that we can follow.
When I moved to Charlotte I contacted a famous pastor who had transitioned a church and written a great book. We were finally going to meet in late December. I spent two hours coming up with questions to ask. I drove an hour away and waited for 2 hours. Unfortunately he didn’t show up. I emailed him and he apologized and said we would do it again. I never have heard from him again. 
I met with another famous pastor here a few months ago for coffee. He tried to rush me out as fast as possible. I wasn’t there more than 10 minutes. Yet, I took 2 hours to come up with questions to ask him. I felt like I was bothering him. But I drove 45 minutes to see him. If he didn’t have time he should have told me before I wasted a half a day.
I’ve asked a dozen or more men to mentor me in the past 10 years. Most have brushed me off. One man said yes then approached me about AMWAY and when I said no I never heard from him again.
How are younger leaders to learn if we don’t have mentors guiding us along the way? Mentoring is a big “buzz” word these days but why is it only the “mega” church guys who get mentored? Naturally I was mentored by my parents especially my father. But I think we need outside people who can be more objective.
My mentoring has occurred on my own by reading the Bible, reading leadership books, listening to tapes and CD’s and going to conferences. I know I don’t speak for everyone but I would like to see, hear and learn from “Success Stories.” I don’t mean people who have great businesses or ministries but those who have “Finished Well!” I want to hear how men and women struggled yet they resisted. I want to hear some victories. Didn’t Jesus promise us and abundant life. I’m tired of only hearing about those who fall. I know God uses them and forgives and I am grateful. But what about those who are trying to live a Godly life and have finished well? We need to hear, read about and meet those who have successful marriages, businesses and ministries because they did it God’s way.
Paul Burleson says:
Temptation comes at our point of strength…not our weakness…who would have thought? I’ve aways been so sold on the idea that I’ve got to strengthen/guard where I’m weak because, if I don’t, I’ll wind up failing/falling in that area. Satan attacks me where I’m weak.
Call me naive and optimistic if you will but I believe there are many believers like this today. I’m looking forward to meeting them and reading about them hopefully on this thread. I love seeing the couples in our church that have been married for 50 and 60 years! I love reading about Bob Cleveland’s love for his wife! My generation needs to see, hear and read more about that.
What do you think?
![[del.icio.us]](http://images.del.icio.us/static/img/delicious.small.gif){kind=small}
30 responses so far
I remember several years ago in a sales training class, the instructor said something corny, but it stuck with me. She said to always remember that peoples’ favorite radio station is WII-FM. “What’s in it for me?” That is peoples’ main concern, whether they be pastors or business leaders. If you do not represent some gain to them that they can quantify (and brag about in front of their church), they’re not interested.
Once I was going to write a book called “All My Heroes are Jerks.” As I looked back over my life, it occurred to me that all of the people I looked up to, when you meet them in person, are jerks. I won’t say his name, but I invited a well-known Christian singer to my church once, he came for a three day crusade. He was a total jerk the entire weekend. He acted as if he should be at a much bigger church. My favorite athlete, who shall remain nameless, is the same way. People work overtime to raise money for his charity, and he does not even appreciate it. Several pastors and evangelists have acted the same way. It is a shame when you look up to someone, and then they turn out to be so stuck on themselves that they cannot act in a civil way toward another.
But then I took a look at some other heroes I have met in my life. As a high school student, I spent some time with Tonight Show bandleader Doc Severinsen. He was a class act, and was so gracious to take the time to teach a kid a little bit about playing the trumpet. A couple of years ago, I had the chance to take David Wilcox, a well-known singer-songwriter, to dinner. I was a little concerned about it, because I love his music so much, and I didn’t want my image shattered. But he was the nicest guy. Very genuine, and didn’t have a pretentious bone in his body. So much for my book.
I appreciate your post Kevin. What I take from it is that there are more ways to fall than just adultery. These pastors we idolize are as guilty as anyone, but their sin is the root of all other sins, pride. Perhaps that is one reason they are brought down so publicly.
Kevin,
Thanks for the honesty. I too wonder why we only hear of those who famously fall. Perhaps the pop culture has invaded our thinking in this area. You see the magazines and TV shows that idolize the media stars, and in some ways, we do the same to ’successful’ pastors. We look to them to offer us crumbs of advice or mentorship and are disappointed when our expectations are busted. Perhaps the better road is to find men who are faithful in ministry, committed wholeheartedly to the gospel and to God’s people, and just allow them to rub off on us.
Dr. Lee Roberson once told a “preacher’s boy” class that his ministry and reputation that he had spent 50 years in building up, could be destroyed in 5 minutes. And like Jason pointed out, he told us there were lots of ways we might hurt the ministry the Lord had given us. He spent 30 seconds on adultery because he said more of us wil be hurt by the other. He spent long time on financial improprieties, gossip, failure to keep confidences, bitterness/unforgiveness, laziness and judgementalism. There were others, but I’ve lost the notes. Paul talked alot about finishing well
I really think that more seminary seniors ought to have to do what future educators have to do: spend time in a classroom/church under the tutelage of an experienced pastor.
Some guys are real even when they make it big. Rick Warren wrote me a hand written note to follow up my thank you note for the PDC conference.
Roger Breland of Truth wrote me a thank you note for helping him when he filled in @ my church in Mobile.
Dr. Akin @ SEBTS sent me a nice note thanking me for visiting chapel a few months back. There are real & authentic people that give me hope.
Brother Kevin,
Your post has hit me head-on. I too have found the same issues that you have. There are some that have been very gracious to me when I came across them. I remember literally bumping into Dr. Adrian Rogers at the SBC in St. Louis. I apologized and he was very gracious in taking time to ask me about where I served. He noted our last names were the same and then we parted. Later that day we were entering the convention hall at the same time and he called me by name. He took more time with me, placing his arm around me as we walked. I was able to ask a couple of questions concerning ministry and he answered them very openly. I will never forget what he told me as we said parted this last time. He said, Brother Tim, you make sure you do not mess up our name.” I am of no relation to him, but he took time to make me feel like I am part of his family. That is the kind of hero that I have.
Brother Kevin, I want to tell you about another hero of mine. His name is Alvin Reid. Dr. Reid is the kind of person that will take time with you and encourage you. I remember my classes with him and thinking, “this guy and I are the same age. How did he get soooo much smarter?” God used him to make an impact on my life. I will never forget the time that my wife went into premature labor. I was in Dr. Reid’s class when they found me. I left and Dr. Reid stopped class to pray specifically for Gail and our little girl. Later that day he called our home to find out how things were and what he could do to minister to us. I have recently disagreed with him on an issue. He lovingly rebuked me for something I was about to do and I received it as such. After working through that he openly loved me and encouraged me. That is the way I understand heroes are supposed to be. I could go on telling you about my other heroes. Dr. Wayne McDill took me and sharpened me in sermon preparation and delivery. Dr. David Beck graciously helped me through Greek and taught me to always remember that whenever you hear someone say, “whenever you see this Greek word it always means…” it means they do not know Greek. Dr. Danny Akin was signing his book “God and Sex” and I spoke with him about my little girl and how should I proceed without pushing her into a surrender to Christ. He graciously gave me some advice, then the next time we saw each other, in the first 5 minutes of conversation, he asked about my little girl.
One other hero that I want to tell you about and I will close. Well, two others. One is named CB Scott. I love that Brother. One thing that many do not understand about Brother CB and myself, is that we have a respect for each other because we know where the other is going to come from. I do not always agree with him and he does not always agree with me. But this Brother will lay down his life for you as a friend. Oh, when he makes up his mind–it will not be changed. The last hero I would like to tell you about is a pastor in Charlotte. This pastor is so open and transparent that sometimes I believe he is just naive. However as I get to know more about him, he is not naive, he is just so vulnerable. I like that. He speaks many times to items that I wish I could speak but I am just too afraid. I do not always agree with this pastor, but from what I know of him he truly desires not to come across as a pharisee. I like that too. This pastor has a picture of himself with a hockey stick coming out of his eye. His name is Kevin Bussey. Yes, from afar you are a hero because you stand up for what you believe in and are not arrogant about your beliefs. You also allow others to disagree with you, but you humbly remind them of why you believe what you believe.
Oh yea, that mentoring thing. I need one. There is a Starbucks on I-77 in Statesville–what say you?
Blessings,
Tim
I am often reminded of Ps 118:8 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. “… Even Men and women of God.
I agree there is a lack of mentorship, and humility in the body of Christ when it comes to well know leaders. Sad but true. But keep the faith brother, and know that God will send the one who was hand picked by the master to mentor you….
Be blessed.
Tim,
Thanks for the kind words. How about meeting in Moorseville? There is a Starbucks @ exit 35. Maybe we will see some NASCAR drivers!
nysaintinsc,
Thanks for stopping by. I don’t want anyone feeling sorry for me. God is faithful. I just get tired hearing about “Mentoring” and I know I speak for a lot of my friends–it just doesn’t happen.
I do have a “Coach” thru the BSCNC. He is great. But coaching is different. They don’t tell you what to do they listen to you. That has been extremely helpful and Ronnie is a pastor on the other side of Charlotte who is 15 years ahead of me in transitioning his church.
I believe some people want to say they are mentors because it sounds good. Just my opinion.
Good post. Last night my wife and I were discussing how we wanted to have some mentors in our lives to help guide us in ministry. I see such a great need for it for the younger generation of ministry leaders. I see it as very important to have some older might I say ’seasoned vets’ to help disciple and lead the younger ministry leaders.
I also, grow tiredsome from hearing of all the pastors and people in ministry of have fallen into sin and have lived in it for so long. It gets kind of scary for our generation going into ministry, which leads to a good response for the older generation of pastors to pour into the lives of the younger.
Press on bro.
Kevin,
Can you elaborate on what you mean by “mentor”? It isn’t just a buzzword in church, but in the business world as well and I think it is easy to have the wrong impression of what is implied.
Boyd,
Thanks for dropping in. Where are you on the Gulf Coast? We moved from Mobile last year. Glad to be away from the hurricanes.
Guy,
I don’t really know since I’ve never had one. But I would think it would be someone who is further along than me in their walk with Jesus and their ministry. I have tried to mentor a few guys. I don’t know how well I did but they stay in touch in fact one is a regular on this blog. We used to hang out at Starbucks 3-5 days a week and just talk life, church, family and I tried to model the life of a believer. He saw all of the good and bad. He witnessed my failures. We prayed together and had fun too! He is in ministry and doing a great job. I’m proud of what God is doing in his life. I hope I made some difference in his life.
I think my generation and younger are looking for real and authentic people who share their struggles and how God helped them make it through or when they messed up how God picked up the pieces.
I think I’m in your generation and I would agree. Authenticity is essential to relationships, whether or not we call it mentorship. I think the key difference between what the world would call mentorship and what we normally call discipleship (or disciple-making/shaping…) is that of mentorship doesn’t require relationship but discipleship does.
So, if we look for someone to mentor us outside of a continuing relationship (where authentic sharing of God’s truth applied to specific aspects of life occurs), then we will be disappointed. For instance, having coffee with another pastor friend (whether older or not) and working thru together the issues surrounding your ministry is a function of mentoring/discipling. Meeting with a guy for an hour isn’t (it may give good advice but doesn’t meet the relationship aspect). Given a choice, I would go for the ongoing sharpening of iron on iron.
YBIC
Brother Kevin,
Tell me when it is good for you. I tell you what; look for an email from me and we will set it up.
Blessings,
Tim
I’m not sure I like the mentoring word either, but I do think it is a biblical concept. My current church has a mentoring program for women to be involved in. There is such a strong desire of younger and younger in faith women to want a mentor. Many of the women who have been through the program as mentees remain to be mentors. The women’s minister is trying to find was to encourage more of the Godly women in the church to become involved.
Sadly, it didn’t meet my expectations/needs. Y’all stated many of those reasons throughout here. My mentor needed to push me more and be alittle more open herself. For me, the woman I was partnered with deserve such respect that I rarely felt it was ok to be real. I know why we were put together, but my real heart issues weren’t the tie in.
The mentors that we need are going to have to break down those barriers that are so ingrained. The need to protect the image ends up hurting the growth. Especially in ministry, we believe we can’t show others our hurts and struggles. Sharing them can be even tougher.
Someone said a great idea about doing a year of ministry before leaving seminary. That would be a wonderful idea if there were people in the ministry actually willing and able. Too many times ministries are stepping stones of mistakes then moving to new positions. If God has truly called us to one area, then advice, prayer, and help is where we should seek it.
*******The other idea in this post********
Heros/mentors do fail us. I wish we could see more of them be real so that the failing us wouldn’t have to hurt so much. I’d like to see the failing and the healing. It is hard to believe that God does do the healing when the one who is in the sin hides. The expectations of others on those in ministry almost forces the withdrawl. Even if I do believe God provides strength in tough times, I don’t think it is a pretty process to see my allowing God to be that strength. Those heros sometimes know that they are heros. How they cover up the sins maybe because they don’t want the sin to tarnish the good that they are already doing. Is it the lie/cover up or the act of sin that is worse…hard for them/us to determine also.
Kevin…
I ran a marathon in 02. I started strong. From mile 10-15 I really struggled. But I finished well (for my first marathon)
Success in ministry does not mean that we do not struggle. It does not mean that sometime we do not fall. It means God picks us up. We learn and grow and move on…scars and all.
I do not know why God allowed my life-long struggle with pornograhy to continue until I was 30. Believe me I would stand in the pulpit and preach about grace and believing the lie that did not apply to me. I do not know why God would allow me to preach his Word on Sunday, Minister to people Monday-Friday and yet still allow me to get my porn fix almost daily! I knew that I was in sin. I knew I was wrong. I begged God to take it away (or kill me).
I had a love/hate relationship with my sin. It ate at me like a cancer. I was undermining my marriage and ministry. I hurt people close to me. One moment my sin was destestable. The other moment it was delicious.I was spirtually and emotionally neurotic.
I came to believe the lie that things would never change so I had to hide who I really was to the world and pretend I was something I was not. I believed that no one would really love me if they knew about my darkness (That of course is another lie…God knew me all along)
I do not know why I ask God 1000s of times to deliver me (I am sure it has something to do with conscious and unconscious self-centereness, self-protection, self-promotion) and yet I has graduated from SWBTS and been pastoring 5 years before deliverance came.
I know God called me into ministry September 21, 1987. It is hard to reconcile this fact. But, I know God called me into ministry 11 years before he set me free.
I take full responsibility for my sin and yet acknowlege God’s soveriegnty in this matter. Without offering blame I know I would not be the pastor I am today without the struggle/redemption I have experienced.
They key seems to be that God placed me in redemptive relationships with strategically placed individuals who modeled grace, authenticity, honesty, and love. They were physical manifestations of the presence and healing of Christ in my life.
I am grateful for those who start well, run well, and finish strong. Because they show me that it is possible. But I am grateful for those who have stumbled and fallen. If I finish well it will be because of them.
Restored by the grace of God they continued the race until coming upon me, bruised and hurting, they cared enough to show me their scars, tell me their story, and show me what the Savior could and wanted to do with me. Then they picked me up and ran awhile with me
Rodney,
Thanks for sharing your story. I’m sorry for what you have gone through but I’m also grateful for God’s Grace & Mercy.
As pastors, it is discouraging. In a strange way, however, it can also become an object lesson for a lost and hurting world that we are all sinners saved by the grace of Jesus Christ and not our own purity.
I think the downfall of many in ministry is the belief that we are better than the people in the pew. They sometimes feed that idea. We sometimes embrace it and cultivate it.
Hopefully a minister is mature (which produces the qualifications found in scripture for leaders)than some in the flock. But being mature is not the same as being better.
Hopefully a minister is “called” for the task of leadership but being called is not the same as being better
This distinction is often lost.
For what it’s worth, I have a few observations.
First, maybe the problem is a generational disconnect? Gen X tends to want genuine relationships and friendships with their superiors. Baby Boomers aren’t there to make friends and may be mystified by requests for some sort of friendship. It may not be a pastor’s failure in a moral sense, but a failure to grasp that Gen X doesn’t really want to interview you, but wants to have a friendship with you. For the most part, these more visible pastors are a part of their generation. “Mentoring” might be too much of a touchy feely concept for Baby Boomer pastors, for all the love people give to the Paul/Timothy dynamic. But then again, Paul and Timothy must have spent years apart with minimal contact after their initial missionary trip.
Second, a youth minister in our church was basically adopted by one of our retired men. For all intents and purposes, this godly layman became a surrogate father for the youth minister. It was a good dynamic that helped keep the youth pastor in tune with the people and his ideas more grounded. I would guess that even preachers have dozens of godly people in their lives who would be open to being a mentor even if they suffer from never having been a pastor.
Third. I have real scriptural problems with the clergy/laity division. I wish more of our preachers were willing to spend their lives serving one church. I wish more of our churches saw their preachers as a member of the community and not an easily replacable hired hand. The desire for upward mobility amoung clergy, the desire to change preachers ever few years by laity and the failure to see that clergy and laity are all in the same boat is one of the most ruinous trends in American Christianity.
Third-A–mentors don’t have to be preachers do they? Is the work of pastoring really so different that a godly layman can’t understand or relate to it?
Onelitteman,
I don’t think a mentor has to be a pastor. One man who I started working with was not a pastor. He was just a leadership guru. Unfortunately he left our church and the mentoring stopped. (I was a staff member)
Thanks for your insight.
Discipleship. Discipleship. Discipleship.
Kevin,
I was so fortunate when I was a young pastor to have had a strong, encouraging relationship with a pastor who came to my home church when I was in high school and he stayed there for ten years. All through my college years, seminary years and into my early ministry years he shared ministry insights with me, gave me advice and really had a strong influence on my life as a pastor. I did not seek him out, it seemed that God put him in my path.
I was fortunate to have some other good influences from men who were directors of missions, state convention workers, other pastors, but I only had the one, long term mentoring relationship. Since that pastor, who has gone on to be with the Lord, was so kind to me I have tried to be an encouragement to others. I really have not had any young minister come along seeking me out for encouragement and advice. I would be willing to help someone. Maybe the Lord just hasn’t put me in the path of someone yet.
Keep seeking to grow and learn all you can about what God has called you to do. Hold onto your call with all your heart and soul. Remember that the final summation of our effectiveness will only be seen in heaven. Invest time in friendships with your fellow pastors. There will be times that they will need you and there will be times that you will need them. My pastor-encourager used to say, “Tim, you are not responsible for how everyone may follow, but you are responsible for how you lead!”
Kevin, be responsible,
be sincere (as my grandfather asked me to do when I felt called to preach),
and be faithful to the One who has graciously called us to a work that can only be done in HIs strength.
God speed in your journey.
Wading into this subject after reading all the deep stuff from all the theologs that visit this site is a little daunting. But, I bring to this subject just a bit of practical experience-having spent time being mentored–and mentoring, as well as watching my husband giving generously of himself in this arena–because he so believes in the value of mentoring–and because so many gave their gifts of time, expertise, and friendship to him.
If you’re looking to find a mentor, ask yourself specifically what you hope to gain. Frankly, each person brings a different mix to the table. One man might be a great business leader–and can offer you mentoring in asking the tough questions so that your evaluation skills will sharpen. Another–you may want to know how they’ve raised such godly kids-or have such a long-term intimate marriage. Still another may provide the ability to probe into yourself–so that you are free to pursue the passions that God has placed there–and not fulfill other’s expectations.
But, there’s the rub–you will need to articulate what you are looking for. And–offer to set boundaries. One of Bob’s most valuable mentors was a Pastor where Bob drove over 3 hours once a quarter to meet w/ him for 1 hour over lunch. Another was a business leader that he approached simply saying, “you are so astute in business–I’d love for you to teach me sound business principles.” Paul replied “I’ll teach you business, if you teach me how to share my faith.” In fact–Bob is still spending time being mentored as well as mentoring.
One caveat from my own life–and perhaps those you are approaching feel it to–we see our own failings–and wonder if we really have all that much to offer someone else. That’s why the approach of, “I see these (specific) qualitites in you–I’d love to learn from them. I will come to you–you tell me the time constraints.”
Lastly–Kevin, you are doing a fantastic job on your blog! I think this site is a real 21st century venue for mentoring–you are asking tough questions–and everyone who responds is being “as iron sharpens iron.”
Thanks for stopping by Cheryl,
You and Dr. Bob have a special place in my heart. I am just a student along the journey. I don’t have all of the answers but I have a lot of questions!
If it makes you feel any better, I recall the time we were out w/ a friend. As he asked the blessing for the food he prayed, “Lord, you know we feel like little boys and girls in our positions, waiting for the grown-ups to show up and tell us what to do!”
Since we’re ahead of you on the journey (by age), we’ll let you know if the time ever comes when we feel like we’ve got it all figured out!
Recent reports of folks who have fallen morally have grieved me as well. I just got word this week on another. It highlights to all of us that, as I regularly tell me to whom I speak, “we are all only one step away from stupid.”
That requires putting Prov. 4:23 into practice and reminds us that it says “with all diligence.” It is a constant thing. And one thing about “guards”-they have tobe posted, they don’t just happen.
As for mentors, I have found that not only does a person need to have a heart desire for a mentor, but a mentor has to have a hearts desire to be iron-against-iron in the life of another. The two guys you mentioned being disappointed with, Kevin, obviously didn’t have that heartbeat. There are many of us out there, tough, who do. And it is often becuase of what mentors have meant in my life.
And don’t look to one mentor for everything. Find those who have a strength in a certain area you want to stregthen and go to him. For a different strength, or in a different season, pick another. At my point in the journey I still have mentors in my life, but they are not the same I had 5 years ago. And I hope I will for years to come, as I do not ever desire to stop learning, growing and changing. And I am committed to keep mentoring as God opens that door. For mentoring should be like a healthy body of water—water flowing in, and water flowig out. That is where balance is found.
I think the key may be in the term “famous.” I learned a long time ago that “fame” of the worldly variety plays a big role in the Christian “world” too, and we are tempted to admire, and make famous, people who have written books, have television ministries, or are well known because they’ve landed in a mega church. I also learned that being famous and well known in Christian circles does not translate into that person being a good mentor for ministry.
I’d have to say that a couple of the men who pastored the small church in Arizona where I grew up would be my most valued mentors. One of them pastored the church from the time I was 7 years old until I was a sophomore in high school, the other from that point until several years after I graduated from college. They endured a lot, very patiently, and their sacrifice and dedication helped a small, struggling congregation grow to maturity. Both of them sensed that God was going to call me to the ministry long before I ever actually even made a profession of faith. They have both gone on to eternity, but the lessons they taught me were as valuable as my seminary education, perhaps even more, and neither one of them ever went to seminary.
I miss them. I haven’t really found anyone to be my mentor since their passing, and there are days when I really need someone.
Dr. Reccord,
Thanks for stopping by. I always value your wisdom and insight.
Lee,
I agree they don’t need to be famous. None of the men I talked to were “big” names per say. They were in my eyes. The two I talked about when I moved here were not going to be mentors and I wouldn’t have expected that because they are busy men. Friends hooked me up with them. I would rather someone tell me up front that they don’t have time to meet then to waste my time too. I just want to make sure I don’t treat anyone that way.
Hi Kevin,
I stumbled upon your blog and love your refreshing honesty, its amazing.
I’m from the other end of the planet.. and at my church, City Harvest (see http://www.chc.org.sg), discipleship is emphasised.
My senior pastor started out young, and he didn’t really have anyone to turn to… but God provided for him, and he’s got pretty good mentors over him. Don’t know if you’ve heard of them but you can try googling for ‘em - Pastors Phil Pringle, Ulf Ekman, A.R Bernard (:
I believe God will have a few for you that you can draw and learn from as well. Preferably in ministry, of course, such that they understand your struggles.
A prayer for you:
Dear God, you see Kevin’s heart, and you know that he seeks a mentor from whom he can learn from, who can also help to disciple him and help him to grow, both as a person, and in terms of fruitfulness in ministry. I pray that you will grant him mentorS who are godly and of good character, who are of the same flow and who can help him reach the destiny you’ve called him to & fulfill the potential you’ve placed in him. Bless him and his wife extremely richly, I pray, for all that they’ve done for you. In your name I pray, amen.
[...] Finishing Well? - by Confessions of a Recovering [...]
[...] week we had a great discussion about mentoring here. I appreciate all of your comments on the subject. I was blessed to have both Dr. Bob and [...]