Mar 19 2007
Will this sign be posted on the front of churches?
[From The Pew Forum]
Small business owners who have been burned by bad checks have long responded by posting a sign above their registers: “In God we trust. All others pay cash.”
Well, now there’s a related message in many churches: “In God we trust. All others can use MasterCard, Visa or American Express.”
And beginning this year, the Internal Revenue Service also has a slogan: “In God we trust. All others show receipts.”
A confluence of spiritual and secular interests is driving a change in the way religious communities raise money. On the way out is the traditional practice of church members reaching into their pockets and dropping bills and change in the collection basket on the Sabbath. On the way in are options such as automatic deductions from bank accounts and paying by credit card.
Read about it here.
[From me]
I’m all for making it easier for people to give. I just wonder if this will lead to people getting in debt?
What do you think?
![[del.icio.us]](http://images.del.icio.us/static/img/delicious.small.gif){kind=small}
30 responses so far
Not if they use debit cards.
First, we don’t worship on the Sabbath - that’s Saturday.
More and more churches are becoming businesses. I definitely think that’s going in the wrong direction.
Consider how little the average Christian tithes I donât think many will be going in debt because of it!
There have always been numerous similarities between a church and a business.
Embracing quasi-new technology (PayPal, etc.) through electronic giving isn’t a bad idea. My family and I give to various organizations electronically. I’m sure many of you do the same especially after Katrina and the Tsunami.
I wouldn’t worry about e-tithing causing folks to go into debt. If someone can’t manage their money, they’re more likely to do so when purchasing the expensive car or some other luxury item.
Doesn’t making tithing an automatic take the thoughtfulness out of the act and moment? Shouldn’t we be deliberately doing it instead of making it as easy as possible? Maybe we should have a “Pray-o-Matic” where we can press a button and get all our prayers for the day done.
It’s when we just go through the motions that we lose their significance and God takes the least delight in them.
Just my humble opinion.
Kelly
I don’t know Kelly. It’s never easy to decide to give 10%, whether it is auto or not. And, so what if it makes it easier. If our weakness is in money, then it is a nice tool to help us overcome that.
Brian,
Yes it is a challenge to give 10%, I think that’s the point. It goes against our natural selfishness. If you no longer have to think about what you’re doing, it’s losing its effectiveness as a devotional & discipleship tool. Making it an automatic deduction is really only a one time decision, not an everyday, every pay-check decision.
Our giving to God is not to be just another bill or pay-for-service automatic like the grocery store, or something to check off our spiritual list (and don’t get me started on the giving envelopes and whether your Bible is brought and SS lesson is studied). It is an act of worship, not an act of convenience.
It’s kind of like Jesus’ model prayer of insisting that we ask for our daily bread. It keeps us coming back to Him and reminds us of our need.
One minister friend of mine said just this week that in his family’s struggle with tithing, it was in the months that he didn’t give his tithe that he and his family actually had less at the end of the month. When they were faithful in tithing, they had enough and deliberately adjusted the rest of their month as a reminder of the faithfulness they had already shown.
We are called to a life of sacrifice–if it’s easy, there’s really nothing to overcome. There is something about the deliberate act that changes us–it’s not really about the amount, but our faithfulness and our willingness to give God our all. Money/tithe is a symbol of that.
I’m just not comfortable listing my tithe next to my electric bill & cell phone.
One thing my wife and I have tried to teach our son is that in most cases, the harder it is to do what is right, the more important it is to do what is right. On top of that, greater is the joy and greater is the reward.
Kelly
I pay mine via electronic check from my bank!
Kelly has a good point. As someone on a very limited budget, I hate that I write my tithe check at the same time as I pay my rent and bills, but that’s the only time of the month that I have money, and if I don’t do it then, it won’t get done. The act of actually taking the check to church and putting it in the offering plate helps remind me that God is faithful to provide — and that it isn’t just another bill.
If they could limit it to debit cards and not credit cards then I’d be for it. It would save the paper and expense of checks. I’m end up writing a check every 6wks because I have to go back and to the figuring. Since I sometimes deposit two checks in my bank account at the same time, it is just easier to figure the tithe then. If I didn’t have to write a check for it then that would make life better for my lack of budget skills. Well being on a budget isn’t hard, but keeping records of it is a challenge. I do think it should not be automatic for then it is not a heart transaction. Yes, the church is a lot like a business but that isn’t what we are called to be. Perhaps going over that Malicia thread to remember this.
grrr..Malachi
Janna,
I agree. I don’t write many checks anyway. I do online banking and pay just about everything online except my tithe. I send my support check for another ministry via the internet.
I also wonder about the worship part of giving in the service.
Is it considered a sin if a believer does not tithe 10% (withholding from God)? Or, is 10% just a general suggestion in Baptist churches?
Kevin-
Interesting concept here, but I do see some problems in using credit cards to contribute our tithes and offerings.
First, we are giving based on future availability of money. Most people are giving money that they do not already possess. They give in the expectation (or faith, if you want a spiritual take on it) that the money they “give” will actually be available when the credit card bill comes at the end of the month. And they are putting their church in the position of believing they have X$ to spend, even though those $ are not really in the offering plate.
Another difficulty is in teaching our children to give to the Lord. Our children are encouraged to begin to give when they see us do it. When our tithing and giving is relegated to automatic withdrawals and a fast swipe through a card reader, there seems to be no connection for any of us with the sacrifice of giving. When we work and receive payment for it, the act of giving becomes a real act of recognizing the recipient’s worth–worship. Children can participate in that by giving from their own resources, their piggy banks and coin purses. Plastic doesn’t give them that opportunity.
Thanks for blogging on this subject.
Kat
Kat,
That is an excellent point about teaching our children. I give my check to my son to put in the plate and we give them money to give too. Plus we have them take out of their allowance.
Brian,
Every church is different. I personally believe we are to give everything to God. He just allows us to keep a portion for ourselves.
Every church is different regarding tithing standards (or the lack, thereof)? Does that affect church attendance and membership?
Unfortunately Brian it does affect churches. If every member in churches did tithe we would never have a problem of meeting church budgets. But for various reasons people don’t tithe. Sadly there are pastors and staff members in some churches and even denomination offices that abuse money and that gives members a bad taste. But we don’t give to a man or a church. We give to God.
I would think it could affect attendance, greatly. Some might feel that they should search for a church that doesn’t appear to be concerned with offerings. I guess they don’t consider the cost of heating the big sanctuary, for one thing. Or maintaining the property. Or paying salaries to staff. Or even smaller costs, such as keeping the pianos and organ pipes in tune, etc., etc. and I’m sure there are millions of other expenses that come up.
I used to sell financial products and services for the Treasury Services area of a large bank. I regularly called on churches, showing them how using auto debit to allow people an easier way to give money to the church would increase giving and provide opportunities for people to give even when out of town, or when the weather causes cancellation of services. Many pastors balked at the idea, and the reasons seemed pretty myopic to me. One reason was that it was too new and unproven, others said that if giving was a form of worship, people should be present to do it, and also the issue of teaching children to give. We can teach children to give using modern methods of payment. In fact, I did some research and discovered when people first started writing checks, churches balked at the idea, because checks were a form of credit, and that if you didn’t give cash, you weren’t really giving.
Churches. Funny bunch.
Actually, the whole credit card method of giving seems a bit odd. It certainly would be for our church (but then we’re a bit odd, too!). We are a small, elder-led church, so our expenses are pretty minimal–rent, utilities, insurance, local ministry expenses and support for four missionary families each month. We have never taken an offering. We do have a box at the back of the room for people to give for the Lord’s work, though, and we have never lacked for anything. God has provided for everything He has asked us to do. Our Sunday School children do take an offering to send to one of our missionary families each month. They have also sent notes and pictures with their money. Somehow that seems a bit more personal and involved that just “passing the plastic”. Their missionaries are THEIR missionaries.
I realize that we are pretty unique, but I somehow can’t imagine a card reader next to that box.
Kat
Cheques are on the way out: we helped our 16-year-old open a bank account and she couldn’t see the reason to purchase cheques. I think it’s primarily a generational issue, not a theological one. I agree with Jason about churches simply being conservative institutions who are very slow to change. I suspect the same arguments were made when people began using paper money.
Malachi is Old Testament Law, we have been set free from the burden of the Law. If we are being spiritually fed, we have the debt of love and our checkbooks to support our local churches. 10% is a good guideline, but from the way I read the New Testament, we are to hear from God on how much we are supposed to give — It could be 30%, 50% or 70%. It plainly says we are to give what we have decided in our heart and are cheerful. It is hard for some to give 10% because of past mistakes with debt, but all should give some and be working to at least a 10% minimum if not more. I’m with Kevin, all of us should belong to God.
Kelly, I’m not sure you get my point. My point is that God uses our weaknesses. I’m not saying don’t sacrifice. And I understand that we are called to die to self and live sacrificially. I wouldn’t be a support-based missionary if I didn’t believe that. I’m just saying that for some, their temptation to cheat is so strong, that it may be best if they could do an auto-draft. And, what is wrong with that? If you can set one up you can take it off, so it will still always be a temptation and a sacrifice to make. Technology can be a blessing or a curse; it is all in what we are directed to do. If one feels like God is directing autodraft… go for it.
Brian, as Kevin said, we are called to give everything. Tithing, if really examined biblically, is likely not biblical. It’s a great standard, but it’s definitely not a rule. Legalistic obedience and Jesus aren’t one and the same. We obey out of love, not out of duty.
Just due to ease I’m liking the automatice withdrawl idea. We could always still give more especially during these mission times of year.
I haven’t actually been in a worship service for a couple of months, so I hadn’t thought about that part of the service. I remember Dr.Sharp saying that we needed to strive to not make giving seem like a payment for the service. Perhaps a strip of paper could be put in the plate saying the other parts of life that are being given back, so the tangible act of giving is there. Since so many churches make the offering the transistion time or the time to pay the bill at the end, it may not be real act of worship for most people.
I’m one of those “funny” people Jason is talking about. I view giving as an act of worship. I’m afraid that auto-giving turns what should be an act of worship into a financial transaction. For the most part I don’t see a lot of long-term value in transactional religion.
I’m church of Christ. I don’t believe in tithing - I don’t believe it’s taught anywhere in the New Testament. I have a real problem with churches keeping a log of how much folks give and (sometimes) sending a letter to tell them they’re not giving enough or are behind. HUH??? I realize there are obligations in maintaining a building. I once attended a small congregation (75 people on a good day). These people were mostly on the low end of the income scale. The “full-time” preacher was paid $640 per Sunday. He gets up and tells the members they aren’t giving enough and they need to have faith. I think he needs to have faith and give up some of his salary. Preachers can come across as being money-hungry and greedy. On the flip side of the previous story, I’ve also attended a congregation where there were two preachers. Neither was considered “full time” - they both had other jobs. These two men were always visiting and teaching (as opposed to the $640/Sunday guy). Neither of these men accepted a “salary.” It had become common over the years to give both of them a monetary gift at the end of the year. THAT’s what it means to be a minister of God.
Hello! Help solve the problem.
Very often try to enter the site, but says that the password is not correct.
Regrettably use of remembering. Give like to be?
Thank you!
Aviation
expresso
Story viagra. Buy generic viagra Buy online pharmacy viagra. Adverse side effects of viagra. Cialis compare levitra viagra. Viagra substitute acquistare cialis online BUY CHEAPEST CIALIS VIAGRA LEVITRA ONLINE.! ONLIEN PHARNACY. Vai a pagina Precedente 1, 2, 3 … 24, 25, 26 … 138, 139, 140 Successivo
acquistare cialis online Acquisto Viagra : Viagra cialis puo servire tuttavia da aiuto eccellente per la roccia di promuovere le erezioni solide.
[b]ÐÑем пÑивеÑ!!![/b]
ÐÑли Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñоже вÑÑап вопÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¾ каÑеÑÑвенной ÑипогÑаÑии, а Ñамое главное надежной, обÑаÑайÑеÑÑ Ð² ÑипогÑаÑиÑ, ÑÑо Ñ ÑÑ. м. УнивеÑÑиÑеÑ!
[b]Ñел.: (495) 939-44-89[/b] [b]ÐвониÑе!!![/b]
ÐÑовеÑенно!!!